All Topics / Help Needed! / Subdivision and Loan and Tax Deduction

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • Profile photo of NoobugawaNoobugawa
    Participant
    @noobugawa
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 16

    Hi all

    Recently bought a block of land (760sqm) in South East Melbourne and plan is to demolish and subdivide into two blocks.

    Block one is 450sqm and we plan to build a family home on it.

    Block two is 310sqm and we plan to build an investment prop on it to rent out.

    My questions are:
    1. What happens to the existing loan of say $1m when we demolish and subdivide? Will I be required to pay more funds to the bank if the value of the subdivided block with the existing old house demolished is lower than what the bank valued at the time of purchase?
    2. With the 310sqm, would building a double storey townhouse of 27sq be a better investment than a single storey unit of 19sq? I’ve done some research the rental on a double storey is about $650pw and single storey rental is about $475pw. Double storey costs about $400k to build whereas the single storey only cost about $200k.
    3. How do I make sure the loan is maximised for the investment property and reduced to “0” for the family home to maximise tax deductions?

    These questions have puzzled me for weeks and I rang my bank twice and no one seem to know the answer. Would greatly appreciate it if someone could shed some light on my situation.

    • This topic was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by Profile photo of Noobugawa Noobugawa.
    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
    Participant
    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    Firstly welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy your time with us.

    In summary:

    1) Yes you will have to reduce the loan to the acceptable percentage of land value. We see this all the time. Property might be purchased for $1M but land is only $700K. Clients may have borrowed 80% of $1M now need to reduce the loan by $140,000. No residential lender lends on end value.
    2) Your will need to ensure your lender structures the loan correctly in order to maximise the interest deduction. If you are building 2 separate homes you wont be able to load the contract on one and reduce the other by the same amount so not a matter of being able to claim 200% on the IP and have an unencumbered PPOR.

    Nice in theory but wont pass the “purpose test”.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of NoobugawaNoobugawa
    Participant
    @noobugawa
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 16

    Thanks Qld007. Very helpful comments. The house is very old and tiny 2 bedder with a colourbond roof. So the value is mostly in the land. Isn’t subdivision usually going to create instant value in the land when approved so it’s rare for banks to value subdivided blocks less than the initial value in an appreciating market?

    With the maximising loan question, what if the existing loan is $1m but at the same time we have $990k cash sitting in the offset account and the $$ will then be used to pay for construction of two townhouses.

    When subdivision occurs, would the bank split the original loan into two separate loans and one for each subdivided block?

    Whatever amount we withdraw from the offset to build the townhouses will drive up the loans and am I correct to say that the amount taken from the offset to build the investment prop and the separate loan attributed to the subdivided block on which the investment property sits, is interest tax deductible? Gosh am I over complicating things here…

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    3. Correctly apportion the loan according to the land split and the build – based on size and cost. You cannot articifically allocate more interest to the investment loan.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of NoobugawaNoobugawa
    Participant
    @noobugawa
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 16

    Yes. I see what you are saving now. With the apportionment of the loan according to land split, is that something the bank does when they divide the original loan into two loans or is it something I need to do with the help of an accountant and professional valuer?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    You will have to instruct the bank. but it won’t be based on land alone but building costs as well.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of NoobugawaNoobugawa
    Participant
    @noobugawa
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 16

    Thanks TerryW. I managed to get through to a home loan specialist at my bank this morning and she confirmed what you said. ;-)

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Thanks TerryW. I managed to get through to a home loan specialist at my bank this morning and she confirmed what you said. ;-)

    That concerns me.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of NoobugawaNoobugawa
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    @noobugawa
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 16

    Lol. Why r u concerned Terryw…

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    I am concerned because you are asking for tax advice to a bank and even more worrying is that they gave that advice.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of NoobugawaNoobugawa
    Participant
    @noobugawa
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 16

    Nah. They were not giving tax advice, that is the job of accountants. They merely confirmed to me the existing loan can stay unchanged after subdivision or they can divide it into two separate loans one for each block. They did say it’s very rare to ask borrowers to top up the loan after subdiv and demolition as long as we can show that we are building new townhouses on the blocks immediately after. The building cost can be out of my own pocket or they can organise construction loan.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Ok, thats good.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    HamishBlair
    Participant
    @hamishblair
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 10

    In this case I presume any surplus cash (sitting in the offset account) can / will be applied against the loan on the PPOR while the loan for the investment property will be interest only?

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