Im looking at buying a 1950’s block of 4 flats (one building with 2 flats on the ground and 2 on the level above) Doing my due diligence checks, The local Council can confirm that their records show its zoned for flats and charge rates as flats but cant actually confirm these as being approved. I’m also concerned that there doesn’t appear to be any ‘fire rated’ walls between the flats.
Any advise on what my obligations as an owner of these flats would be as far as fire rating goes? or what fire certifications are required for it?Appreciate any help.
Hi Lakeinnes,
“Legislation requires landlords to do fire assessments in all areas of their properties to identify risk and to replace anything or remove anything to reduce the risk of fire.”
Like you, I will surely be concerned about not having any fire rated walls between flats. Have you ask the council what is their say about this? Or if you have any builder friend, or can ring up any builder, they surely know a bit regarding this type of building requirement.PHP | Mortgage Station Pty Ltd
http://www.mortgagestation.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeGive us a call or send us an email for a free residex report.
I know with a few units I have, upgrading fire ratings have been an expense. Mainly adding fire sprinklers etc.
I don’t think anyone could ask to build firewalls etc (which are the current regulations). This would mean MANY buildings would need to be demolished. But you do need to comply to basic regulations.You need to ask Council if the building has a Fire Safety Certificate.
Found this below.
Fire Safety is an extremely important part in the maintaining of a Strata or Community scheme but sadly is, in many instances, one of those matters that’s put into the too hard and too expensive basket thereby possibly putting the lives of the scheme’s lot owners at risk.
The NSW Environmental Planning & Assessment Regulation 2000 requires that “the owner of a building, to which an essential fire safety measure is applicable, is required to maintain each essential fire safety measure in the building”. Failure to comply with this legislation can lead to significant fines and possibly serious legal ramifications for those responsible.
The bottom-line is: everyone MUST comply with the fire safety legislation – no excuses
Fire Safety measures include (but are not limited to):fire mains and water supply services
fire hydrants
fire shutters & windows
fire doors
fire dampers
fire hose reels
fire extinguishers
smoke detectors and alarms
automatic sprinkler systems
emergency lighting
stand-by power systems
exit lighting & signs
Fire Safety Installation Certificate
An appropriately qualified person, such as a Fire Engineer or Building Surveyor, must inspect the fire safety measures and provide a Fire Safety Installation Certificate to the owners. This certificate must then be provided to the local council and Fire Brigade each year and a copy displayed in a prominent location within the strata building. Complete details on all the requirements for fire safety compliance can be found on the following websites.Thanks for your replies Catalyst and PHP,
I’ve talked to the council, building surveyor and solicitors.The council can only confirm that its zoned ‘Multi residential and with 4 flats’ and they have no other records of the building (too old)or ‘Fire Safety Certificate’.
The building certifier believes that as long as it was approved as flats when it was built, then it would not need to meet todays current standards of fire rated walls. (would not be able to strata or get approval for any other works though)
The solicitor says it must of originally had approval as council acknowledges ‘Multi residential and with 4 flats’
Still a bit of a grey area but I’m thinking I’ll try and see if the certifier can provide me with something in writing to confirm it is compliant ‘as is’ and what renovations are allowed (ie. new kitchen, paint, etc)
I will also look further into the ‘Fire Safety Certificate’
Good job lakeinnes,
Just talk to everybody involved. Also ask for an opinion from an outside source. Like a different builder so they can give you their opinion as well on what can be done better. Keep us posted!
PHP | Mortgage Station Pty Ltd
http://www.mortgagestation.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeGive us a call or send us an email for a free residex report.
By the sounds of it, the property is pre-Ordinance 70 & BCA. At the time of construction and issuing of the occupancy certificate (council), the building would have complied with the then current codes eg: height of buildings act and fire safety requirements were minimal.
If you were to proceed, you would need to ensure that basic requirements were provided ie. linked smoke detectors in each unit, FIP, distance to fire hydrant in the street etc. For peace of mind, you might consider installing fire exit lighting, solid core front doors (though fire rated doors/jambs might be more appropriate) & hose reels. The ceilings between floors probably aren’t fire rated (floors are probably timber), top floor ceilings wouldn’t be fire rated allowing the spread of fire into the roof space, dividing walls may not go through to the underside of the roof either.
Thanks for the info Scott No Mates, I was keeping an eye on this thread as well as I wanted to know the legislation or policies for this type of scenario.
PHP | Mortgage Station Pty Ltd
http://www.mortgagestation.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeGive us a call or send us an email for a free residex report.
Thanks ‘Scott No Mates’
As the council have no records of the original ‘Occupancy Certificate’ or Building Approval number (or Anything like that that)
I approached my solicitors for some advice;
My Question was;
*Where we know a block of flats on one title does not have fire rated walls of today’s building standards,
Would they still be considered to be ‘Compliant’ if they were approved back before current standards (approx 1950’s -1960’s build)?*Where the council have only a record of the building type (i.e. Multi residential Flats) but have kept no actual record of the building approval, Is the council then deemed to be recognising the building as being ‘approved / Compliant’ as they charge council rates as ‘Multi residential flats’? Or is it still up to the owner to prove this?
Basically would we be at a high risk owning such a building?
I expect most of the older flats to be the same issue, as we’ve inspected a few like this.Their response was;
You need to be careful as I am aware of an instance where a motel was closed down because it didn’t comply with current fire regulations. Because of the danger to human life there isn’t much room to move on that issue and councils don’t want to risk BAD PUBLICITY OR BEING SUED.
The only safe way to proceed is to get a Building Certificate. The council isn’t deemed to have approved something unless you can prove they have.
If you don’t get the building Certificate or otherwise establish approvals then yes you are taking a gamble, both as to avoiding a compliance order from council or trouble finding a buyer when you want to sell.
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