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  • Profile photo of setiseti
    Member
    @seti
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 8

    Hi all,

    Myself and a friend are thinking of starting a renovating for profit business and I have a few questions regarding finance, however just a few points to make sure you all know where our heads are at. We think that my friend will need to keep working while I renovate the properties, until the banks can see that the business creates enough money to service the loans, then he will quite his job and we will both work full time in the business. Now to the questions:

    1. Will the banks lend to us if the income we earn is through selling the properties that the loans are for?

    2. I imagine we would need to go down the path of low doc loans?

    Thanks for your assistance in this and i am sure there will be more questions that arise. I also have a post up in the legal side of house in regards to setups and taxes.

    cheers.

    Profile photo of Colin RiceColin Rice
    Participant
    @fms
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 338

    You would come under the self employed category at best and to borrow funds from a bank you would need to provide two years tax returns and financials.

    Lo doc loans usually require 12 months BAS statements and  lenders will risk asses your declared occupation. Full time renovators will be a high risk occupation in lenders eyes and you would have to have major runs on the board to even be considered.

    To add, if one partner is working and the other is renovating then all loans would have to be on the working persons name and also would need to prove serviceability as well.

    If you have considerably equity in existing properties and the ability to service the equity loans then this option could be explored further.

    Another strategy to consider would be to buy, value add, rent and hold the properties. 

    Colin Rice | CDR Finance
    http://cdrfinance.com.au/
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    Perth Based Mortgage Broker - Investment Property Finance Specialist | E: [email protected]

    Profile photo of wilko1wilko1
    Participant
    @wilko1
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 510

    1) harder then you think to do successfully. 

    What's your current incomes if you keep working ? ALOT of people neglect the fact that there is only 38 hours in a working week and there is almost easily another 40 hours that your can work if you want to put your head down.  

    I would actually personally ignore low doc loans. Unless you have bucketloads of equity/cash for 40 % deposits without LMI.

    Its tough to crack the 2 year self employed mark. Sometimes it easy to time the purchase and selling of the 1st couple properties just before one financial year so you only have to wait 14-16 months instead of if you had bought a home in July 1st 2013 etc. You would have to wait the full 24 months, which might be tough.

    Pick the correct bank as well. Ie you might find wespac consider 1 year self employed income if you ask the right people.

    Also the correct structure. If your friend was working to provide servicablity then the sales proceeds should go to the person who is not earning any income that financial year. 

    The loans can still be in both names. Depends what structure they purchased in. Ie a company with 2 family trusts as shareholders.

    My advice is that if you have a decent job and decent equity is to do something less time intense. 

    Or you might hate your job. 

    Bit more information is required to make a better comment 

    Profile photo of Colin RiceColin Rice
    Participant
    @fms
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 338

    ANZ are the 12 month self employed niche bank. 

    Colin Rice | CDR Finance
    http://cdrfinance.com.au/
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    Perth Based Mortgage Broker - Investment Property Finance Specialist | E: [email protected]

    Profile photo of setiseti
    Member
    @seti
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 8

    Thanks for your help so far everyone. Just to give a bit more information about ourselves. He is a plumber doing subcontracting work earning around 65k and I am in the government sector earning 70k. I have 1 house that I bought for 267k valued now at 330k thanks to adding a bathroom and some good renovations. This property could be positively geared, however if I sell it I will have a tad over 100k to work with. I have thought about using the equity but not sure if this is the best option when starting a business up. I would need some cash to pull my weight. The loan is under 1 year and fixed for 3.

    In regards to working and running this business at the same time, I am not sure this is the best idea, as when running a business a considerable amount of time wouldneed to be invested and my current job can move me around at short notice for long periods of ttime….. so yes I am not enjoying this job anymore.

    As for the setup we are thinking a business partnership as we would like to avoid company tax and individual tax however this area we need more knowledge on and any help in this area would be great. We have looked at the ATO and other websites and understand the difference between each option but practical application is still a tad out there for us.

    Profile photo of LazibonesLazibones
    Participant
    @lazibones
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 4

    I  have found ANZ the worst  bank on a few ocassions they wouldnt give a loan, when others  even tho they had less security, said no worries you are in a strong position being West pac, ST G and bank west..  ANZ tend to sneak up rates and are unco-operative with short term loan limit extensions, make promises you can have X amount then change their mind and not deliver. Of  the loans ive put out for tender ANZ were the lest competetive or they didnt even submit an offer.

    Profile photo of DaOneDaOne
    Participant
    @daone
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 38

    Agree with Lazibones, ANZ is not a very friendly / co-operative bank to deal with

    DaOne | Oras Finance - Your Local Mortgage Broker
    http://www.ihomeloans.net.au/
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    Help you make your dreams come true: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB3KpKX4UsI

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    I don't have any issues with ANZ. Apart from having a poor servicing calculator and not being overly competitive at present – they're product offering isn't too bad and their cashout policy is quite good (and transparent) which is important for investors.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
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    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
    Participant
    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    Totally agree with Jamie as a major they are as good as iit gets in regards to their all round policy.

    Oh and by the way just to clarify what Colin said. "Yes Anz will accept 1 years Tax Returns for servicing however they do require 2 Years ABN".

    No lender is going to be too enthusiastic in financing a short term deal anyway so might have to look at development financing in the long run.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of Colin RiceColin Rice
    Participant
    @fms
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 338

    I have managed to use them successfully on many occasions with no issues and have found they always do what they say they will.

    A pro active BDM is always helpful to have on your side.

    Colin Rice | CDR Finance
    http://cdrfinance.com.au/
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    Perth Based Mortgage Broker - Investment Property Finance Specialist | E: [email protected]

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213
    seti wrote:
    Hi all,

    Myself and a friend are thinking of starting a renovating for profit business and I have a few questions regarding finance, however just a few points to make sure you all know where our heads are at. We think that my friend will need to keep working while I renovate the properties, until the banks can see that the business creates enough money to service the loans, then he will quite his job and we will both work full time in the business. Now to the questions:

    1. Will the banks lend to us if the income we earn is through selling the properties that the loans are for?

    2. I imagine we would need to go down the path of low doc loans?

    Thanks for your assistance in this and i am sure there will be more questions that arise. I also have a post up in the legal side of house in regards to setups and taxes.

    cheers.

    It will be difficult. If the profits are listed as capital gains then it would be unlikely that this would be treated as a business. If income then maybe after 2 years or so.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Don NicolussiDon Nicolussi
    Participant
    @don
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,086

    Private lending would be an option at 60% LVR if you are really serious about it or higher on a second mortgage basis. There is a better way to go about it though.

    Expect to pay at least 10% PA on a first mortgage basis for private. There are still lots and lots of low doc loans around outside of the major lenders using 6 months business income to verify earnings or accountant certs and all sort of combinations but you still have the ABN and gst time limits to contend with ( but you are only paying bank rates and a small preimum ). Plus your broker will also have to comply with the law in this regard as well and ask the right questions and document your responses etc.

    Off the finance part of it for a sec.

    Most people in this forum would agree that you make your money when you buy. That is, the ability to pick something up below value or the valuation the bank gives it and identifying properties with value ad potential.

    Learn that skill. You can do it while you are working and use the solid income from your great secure government job to buy them and flip them. Talk to an accountant to get your structure right mostly because you have a partner and you want to have clear strategies in case there is a breakdown.

    Not to say that people don't make money doing reno's but doing one at a time is slow and you will get limited by your body. Use the old grey matter and learn a few skills. Negotiate. Study the zoning and property use regulations in your target area.

    This is an example of what I am talking about. Buy a house with a  enough land to do a simple sub-divison and sell house and land. You could finance this with a standard resi loan up to 95% LVR if you are working.  Or even say 90% LVR with a 20k line of credit at settlement to use in the project.You have rental income for servicing as well. Use your seed money for costs. Keep the job until you have your first 5 to 6 projects done and then you'll be right. You can also use this time to see if the business relationship with you partner is going to work. Very basic strategy but you will make more money with your mind than with the paint brush with a bit of planning and study.

    Don Nicolussi | Property Fan
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    Learning, having fun and doing it!

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