All Topics / Opinionated! / THE COMING ECONOMIC CRISIS GET READY!

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  • Profile photo of JT7JT7
    Member
    @jt7
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 286

    I've been spending a bit of time over on 'Hotcopper' of late. I know….I"m a tramp lol. 

    However, times are volatile recently and this discussion is raging. 

    I've personally taken a position on what I think may happen and have invested accordingly so I've got skin in the game. I think there are going to be some huge opportunities  in this space. 

    I just thought I'd open it up for discussion here because global economics affects us all.

    To disclose, I personally think we are going to see some real head winds. IMHO I think US economic growth is anemic at best and the US fed appears to be a rudderless ship addicted to artificial stimulus which won't end well sometime down the track. If you can pick when it'll all come crashing down you're a genius. However, in saying that, the situation will offer opportunity.  

    The following is an exert from a discussion on a thread on the HC forum.

    "Get ready for the great market collapse!!! Bernake going to destroy the world economy!!!

    Bernanke increases real stimulus by 204%

    The ducks are lining up for an absolute disaster in the stock market over the months ahead. The Fed clearly see risks on the horizon, and the stock market does not. That will change very soon. How do we know this?

    The equation for calculating real stimulus involves consideration to the funding operations of the U.S. Treasury department. The U.S. Treasury is issuing bonds every month, increasing the debt levels of the United States accordingly, and the Federal Reserve is essentially funding the operations of the U.S. Treasury, and then some. It is this excess that equates real stimulus.

    When we offset the drain on liquidity that exists when the U.S. Treasury issues bonds to fund the government from the operations of the Federal Reserve in 2013, the real stimulus offered by the $85B bond buying program is only about $11.5 billion, far less than the face value, but still a net positive.

    This is not unusual. This was true during past quantitative-easing programs, too, but because the U.S. Treasury department expects to need substantially less money to operate in 2014, the amount of funding needed on a monthly basis has come down substantially. The net effect of the offset increases the real stimulus of the current $85B bond buying program from $11.5 billion to $35B.

    The decision to not taper was a decision to increase stimulus, and although the face value of the program is exactly what it was before, the net effect of this decision not to act is to increase the net real stimulus offered by the Federal Reserve to the U.S. economy by $23.5 billion, or 204%.

    I am writing this knowing full well that the proactive strategies we use at Stock Traders Daily do not depend on market direction, and none of us should forget that, but there are major concerns, and now more traditional metrics are supporting the idea that the stock-market rally will soon end.

    First, companies have been selling into this rally aggressively. They do this by issuing secondarys, IPOs and debt. They did this through all of 2013, but corporate America has been selling in a more-pronounced fashion recently, and individual investors have been buying. This is significantly different than years past.

    Looking back at the earnings-per-share (EPS) growth rate for the Dow Jones Industrial Average in the second quarter of 2013, it was clear from the disastrous results that the share-repurchase programs have been restrained. We have calculated the influence share-repurchase programs had on the earnings of the Dow before, and some conclude that share-repurchase programs have accounted for as much as 80% of the EPS growth for the Dow, but during this most-recent quarter, the positive influence on EPS from these share-repurchase programs did not exist at nearly the same rate.

    Therefore, companies are not only selling into this rally, but they are not buying back stock aggressively either, even though share-repurchase programs are still authorized by most companies. There is a material difference here, and authorizing a share-repurchase program and actually buying stock are two completely different things. A couple of years ago, companies were buying aggressively, but today, especially recently, companies are selling into the rally.

    Next, although one might expect interest rates to fall back down to where they were before the market became concerned with tapering, the reaction of the bond market to the no-tapering announcement on Wednesday was little more than a knee-jerk reaction.

    Bonds are essentially where they were a week or so before the Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC) meeting, and the impact of that no decision has been muted in that smart-money category.

    In my opinion, bond investors are almost always smarter than stock-market investors because bond-market investors rarely look for a quick trade, they study more carefully, and they make educated decisions when stock-market investors might make decisions based on a news event or something similar.

    With focus on the ProShares UltraShort Lehman 20+ Year Treasury ETF TBT -0.47% , the double-short long-term Treasury ETF, this instrument tested the defined midterm support level in our real-time trading report twice since the FOMC decision, and thus far, that support level has held. Investors do not seem to be clamoring to buy bonds, and interest rates have remained higher than the FOMC probably would like.

    In my opinion, the Federal Reserve did not act on Wednesday for one of a few reasons, or a combination of them all. Either they were concerned that interest rates moved higher so fast that they would impede economic growth and tapering might exacerbate that situation, or the Federal Reserve was concerned about a government shutdown.

    I understand the debate about employment. I understand the underlying economy, as well, but if the rationale for no tapering was based on weak economic data, and the prospects for weaker economic data if interest rates remain high, the corresponding move in the stock market is not warranted.

    In no uncertain terms, the decision not to taper by the FOMC told us that there are problems that exist and additional problems that can surface; these can be due to higher interest rates, problems in Congress, and quite reasonably, the state of our current economy once the top layers are peeled back.

    My initial indication a few weeks ago was that the FOMC would not taper their bond-buying program due to these factors, but I succumbed to the general-market pressures and began to expect the FOMC to begin this tapering process because it had an open-door opportunity to do it.

    But apparently they are seeing a far worse economy than I thought, which is more in line with my observations as well, and now they have essentially increased stimulus by doing this.

    The result of not tapering is actually to increase the amount of stimulus because the Treasury does not need as much money in 2014 as it needed in 2013, so the offsets that existed before are no longer there at the same rate. That means the decision not to taper was actually a decision to increase stimulus, and that as well is a red flag.

    When the FOMC makes a conscious decision to stimulate the economy, it does it because the economy is too weak and likely to get weaker, and that is exactly where we are today. Corporate America recognizes this, is selling into the rally, and they are doing it before third-quarter earnings results.

    In my opinion, based on my overall analysis, I believe the third-quarter earnings results will come in much lower than current expectations, and I am prepared for earnings warnings. I am also prepared for significantly lower market levels, with 1425 in the S&P 500 still as a downside target.

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bernanke-increases-real-stimulus-by-204-2013-09-20"

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    Below is an interesting read on how a financial crises similar to 2008 might play out if it couldn't be contained with regard to our complex supply chains. My personal belief is that a crises of greater magnitude to 2008 is only a matter of time now. Predicting when is impossible but logic suggests that an unknown trigger will be all it takes to set the next crises off. My real concern is not that there will be a crises at some future time but our ability to contain and repair/recover from a significant system failure. 

    We have a fractional reserve banking/financial system that is reliant on credit growth for its existence. When credit growth is exhausted there is no option left but a collapse and reset.

    Trade-Off

    Financial System Supply-Chain Cross-Contagion:

    a study in global systemic collapse.

    David Korowicz

    http://www.feasta.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Trade-Off1.pdf

    This study has two broad aims. The first is analytic and expository –  about how we might

    understand systemic and complexity risk in the globalised economy at a time when such

    risk  is  rising.  The  second  is  a,  probably  futile,  plea  for  urgent  risk  management  and  a

    coming  to  terms  with  the  possibility  that  within  this  decade  we  may  see  catastrophic

    failures in the socio-economic systems upon which we rely for our basic welfare.

    One  of  the  effects  of  massive  credit  over-expansion and/or  the  peaking  of  global  oil

    production is the growing risk of a global systemic financial shock. The likelihood, as with

    so many financial crises of the past, is that the breakdown of the global financial system

    will  be  sudden  and  catastrophic,  marked  by  complacency  and  hope  turning  to  fear  and

    panic. It would happen over hours and days

    Profile photo of JpcashflowJpcashflow
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    @jpcashflow
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 575

    Hi,

    Love your post!!!

    I think you are right, I have a bit of shares in the Australia market and I am planning to sell most of my stock by end of week: why?

    1) Earnings for most companies have decreased and it’s amazing to see how many business are running at a loss.

    2) Our stock market is fed by “SUPER” and with this, it really creates a “fake demand for shares”. Most people who have super locked into a fund they are not even sure what shares they own.

    3) Value of stock: The ASX has grown over 20% in a market where business have only grown 2% to 4 %. So a correction is due.

    DEBT: Allot of people simply have too much debt, ranging from SMSF on property, car leases, personal credit card / Personal loans debt and massive home loans for both investments and personals.

    This cycle is required and needed but in falling times there are still opportunities.

    Jpcashflow | JP Financial Group
    http://www.jpfinancialgroup.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Your first port of call in finance :)

    Profile photo of jmsracheljmsrachel
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    @jmsrachel
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    I just purchased another IP on the weekend, should i start learning how to tie the noose knot now or wait a couple months?

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    An interesting article by Simon Black this morning (Soveriegn Man Blog)

    Now the Chinese are wagging their fingers at Obama

    As the US government’s international reputation craters after one embarrassing episode after

    another, other nations are beginning to no longer trust the US, whether it comes to spying or

    managing a sound currency.

    This puts the US dollar at even greater risk of quickly losing global reserve domination, and

    along with it, the ability to print money without damning ramifications.

    As history has shown so many times before, this is exactly how the end begins.

    US decline is fairly obvious in my mind. The dollar losing reserve status will simply be the coup de grâce. Problem is I think we could be into WW3 by then.  It is a sham democracy now and has been for a while. As a plutocracy the US is too dangerous to be allowed to carry on the way it has been.

    My gut tells me that over the next 50 years the world may well see unprecedented carnage.

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    And another article that indicates how Australia could follow the US into a plutocracy if this Abbot government has its way. The LNP in its latest incarnation is a bigger threat to the Antipodean way of life than many realise.

    Abbott set to sign highly secretive TPP agreement this month

    If you thought the Labour muppets were bad you ain't seen nothing yet.

    The Gillard government made it clear that Australia would not sign another trade

    agreement that included international dispute settlement by tribunals.

    The TPP seeks, among other things, to rewrite the global rules on intellectual property

    enforcement that would give Big Media new powers to lock users out of our own content

    and services, provide new liabilities that might force ISPs to police our online activity,

    and give giant media companies even greater powers to shut down websites and remove

    content at will. It also encourages ISPs to block accused infringers’ Internet access,

    and could force ISPs to hand over our private information to big media conglomerates

    without appropriate privacy safeguards. You can see a more complete list of new

    restrictions below, but it appears that the TPP would turn all Internet users into

    suspected copyright criminals. In fact it appears to criminalize content sharing in

    general.

    Profile photo of Rick staRick sta
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    @rick-sta
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    Post Count: 120

    This is something I am fully aware of and have been quietly preparing for of late.
    Once or twice I raised my concerns on this forum and the property investing community wouldn’t have a bar of it (I was actually awaiting your thoughts Freckle, I know you know).

    To see this thread active here tells me that we may be closer to this historic event than first thought.

    Profile photo of JpcashflowJpcashflow
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    @jpcashflow
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 575

    Hi Rick Sta, I have to agree with you.

    When we some times state an "opinion" some people see it as being negative "etc" but not all bad news is negativity, its some time just stating how things are.

    I think preparing your self is a great proactive thing to do.  

    There will still be allot of opportunity out their but in different forms.

    My biggest concern is the amount of personal debt people are carrying

    Jpcashflow | JP Financial Group
    http://www.jpfinancialgroup.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Your first port of call in finance :)

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    ..

    Elliott Capital's Paul Singer:

    I don't want to paint  a picture of clarity about the workout of this thing. Because

    once a society, a financial system gets in a position of the central bank being

    trapped, and being unwilling or frightened of stopping this merry go round,

    things get very dicey.

    If you look at Fed minutes from 2004-2006, the Fed seems clueless about the

    financial system. Therefore, to rely on those people now is a bit foolish.

    Sadly, the alternative to "those people" are those other people in Congress,

    whose stupidity has been enabled by the same people at the Fed, whose

    creeping take over of the world using monetary policy means has resulted

    in the peak impotence of the US fiscal apparatus and a Congress which is

    now, as is painfully evident, completely broken.

    Full article here

    Profile photo of jmsracheljmsrachel
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    If something disastrous should happen, how well can you prepare for it before hand? Do we just sit and wait for the storm to come?  Even if you sell all your assets, property, reduce debt, etc, if the “world should cave in” aren’t we all doomed to some point?

    Profile photo of moxi10moxi10
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    @moxi10
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    jmsrachel wrote:
    If something disastrous should happen, how well can you prepare for it before hand? Do we just sit and wait for the storm to come?  Even if you sell all your assets, property, reduce debt, etc, if the “world should cave in” aren’t we all doomed to some point?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Hi Joe   I suggest you should subscribe to Foxtel and record and study the series "Doomsday Preppers"                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               suggest                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    jmsrachel wrote:
    … if the “world should cave in” aren’t we all doomed to some point?

    Not necessarily. A financial collapse would impact on sections and classes of a population differently and to varying extents. The impact will be felt differently from country to country and even within regions of a country. In terms of Australia you could see unemployment of 8-10%, asset corrections that average upto 30% and extended periods of deflation.

    It's impossible to know how and to what extent any negative forces might affect the individual. The point is that there is a growing recognition that this economic system is in terminal decline and the only way to protect yourself is to develop strategies that minimise or emolliate any damage. 

    The types of things a PI might look at would be:

    1. streamline portfolios and cull any deadwood,
    2. reduce leverage to cope with;

    • 30% equity loss, and
    • 25% revenue reduction

    The basic premise in all investing is that if the economic winds change and you're over leveraged and under capitalised then the chance of failure rises exponentially. It's relatively easy to adopt a defensive posture and still grow a portfolio albeit the more one leans towards defensive (low risk) the slower that would be. If you knock on a few doors here you'll find almost all the of the long time experienced investors here have deleveraged and streamlined their portfolios over the last few years to cope with above normal stressors. They might not say it in so many words but they expect problems and challenges in the next few years.

    Profile photo of Rick staRick sta
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    Thanks Freckle, great post.

    As a young investor, my property portfolio is VERY highly leveraged. My risk management strategy is six feet under. In a best case scenario of hyperinflation, the banksters will erode the property debt and I won't be holding devalued fiat currency.

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    Rick sta wrote:
    In a best case scenario of hyperinflation, the banksters will erode the property debt and I won't be holding devalued fiat currency.

    Hyperinflation is when confidence in a currency has collapsed and that's a disaster. What's more likely is asset deflation accompanied by cost inflation. Inflation is generally considered as a bonus for PI's but that's too simplistic. In the 08 crises inflation was suppressed so CB's could lower interest rates to stimulate activity. If a crises includes inflation then CB's could be inclined to hold or raise rates(Paul Volcker FED mid 80's). Cost inflation such as Japan (mainly energy) without accompanying wage growth would work against you. You could see CG stagnate or go negative while costs rise (IR's, fees etc) and rents decline in a rising unemployment environment.

    Everyone goes through that initial stage of high risk high leverage as they build their investing base. The era we are in now is more high risk and volatile than any other time over the last 50 years. If a crises hit now the attrition rate amongst PI's would be horrendous. 

    Profile photo of ConnollyConnolly
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    Hey Freckle,

    you seem to have a very well rounded concept of cause an effect and how various stressors have the ability to affect local and overseas markets and their respected macro and micro economies.

    I'm interested on what you would suggest for young investors (sub 30) who are generally leveraged higher to build up their portfolios in their early years- how do you minimise risk in the event of economic crisis whilst still accruing a significant portfolio.

    Ie. buy properties that are in the bottom quartile of any market? chase solid yields 6.5% plus to allow for rate inflation and a buffer should rental demand fall, etc? What criteria do you implement to hedge yourself against the foreseeable down turn and what would you suggest if you were in your mid twenties in this current climate?

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    Connolly wrote:
     what would you suggest if you were in your mid twenties in this current climate?

    Patience and quality. By that I mean a purchase must allow you to improve equity through improvements and be in a stable lower middle class area. Set minimum equity levels. I would go in with at least 15% and look to reno that up to 30%. I have a minimum rental return of $1.50 rent per $1000 market value. Your initial purchases absolutely have to be quality. It forms the basis or foundation of a portfolio and shields you if the market moves against you. Building a base with high quality takes time and that's where patience is essential. Get the first 5 properties right and that provides momentum to accelerate growth through acquisitions later down the track

    The vast majority of newby PI's make poor buying decisions in the early phases because they want to get runs on the board. They lower their standards just to get a foot in the door. There are dozens of PI's on this forum who have gone out and bought 1, 2, 3 dude properties and then find they've backed themselves into a corner with mounting losses. They lowered their standards and convinced themselves that CG growth would get them through. 

    If things get rough then every one tends to move down a notch so the bottom half of the market is the safer option with the bottom third offering the best growth in a down turn. 

    Profile photo of ConnollyConnolly
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    Cheers Freckle, good information-

    Profile photo of tommytuckertommytucker
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    I'm in Perth but I guess the question fits no matter where you are: does Ben Graham's 20% margin of safety exist today? Given that everyone is looking at the lower end of the market and therefore price is everything, you'd assume everyone wants to get in at a 20% discount regardless of what improvements etc are necessary.

    Profile photo of JT7JT7
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    Appreciate your thoughts guys, Freckle I knew you would jump on this discussion. 

    It's been an interesting couple of weeks in global politics particularly the debt ceiling crises. 

    I see JPMorgan have been fined a 'seemingly' huge amount of money for past indiscretions…..  

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/11-billion-fine-just-cost-doing-business-jpmorgan-175948500.html

    I got out my copy of Robert Kiyosaki's 'Rich Dad's Conspiracy of the Rich' recently….. Give you the tip, it's an interesting read in light of what's going on globally this decade.

    Some massive action on the COMEX of late. Some huge short positions in the Gold paper market in what I think is manipulation of the gold market as the fed tries to protect the USD after it has been attacked in recent times. The world is now moving away from the USD as a global currency which is evident in China now opening up trade agreements with a number of countries and freely using the Renminbi. 

    China is now importing huge amounts of gold bullion which is cementing a floor on the price of gold even as it is being manipulated in the paper market. Sometime down the track we may see the Renminbi backed by gold…… 

     

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-13/chart-day-china-imports-over-2000-tons-gold-last-two-years

    Well, I guess this weeks the week then… this time around anyway!

    Profile photo of JT7JT7
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    @jt7
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    Post Count: 286
    Jpcashflow wrote:
    Hi,

    Love your post!!!

    I think you are right, I have a bit of shares in the Australia market and I am planning to sell most of my stock by end of week: why?

    1) Earnings for most companies have decreased and it’s amazing to see how many business are running at a loss.

    2) Our stock market is fed by “SUPER” and with this, it really creates a “fake demand for shares”. Most people who have super locked into a fund they are not even sure what shares they own.

    3) Value of stock: The ASX has grown over 20% in a market where business have only grown 2% to 4 %. So a correction is due.

    DEBT: Allot of people simply have too much debt, ranging from SMSF on property, car leases, personal credit card / Personal loans debt and massive home loans for both investments and personals.

    This cycle is required and needed but in falling times there are still opportunities.

    It'll be very interesting JP what eventuates over the coming months… 

    I happen to agree with you and at best I think the markets are due for a pull back after a good run up on stimulus in particular which is the very issue that scares the bejesus out of me…. Artificial Stimulus and the markets inability to go without…. 

    September 18, 2013 the Dow hit an all time high at 15,676. 

    On October 9, 2007, the Dow closed at its pre-recession all-time high of 14,164.43 by January 2, 2009 the Dow had crashed down to 6,594.44.

    Certainly not saying it's going to happen again but there are some serious issues. I hope all we endure is a healthy pull back in the markets….. 

    http://useconomy.about.com/od/stockmarketcomponents/a/Dow_History.htm

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