I find it frustrating that so many people within this forum seem to poo poo anything non-traditional in terms of buying and selling real estate. I find it amazing that they maintain this attitude and still subscribe to the Steve McKnight website and theories, one of which is “Success comes from doing things differently”.
Recently I have found myself defending my position on being involved in Creative Real Estate only because I see the logicality and sense around it VS the traditional way of transacting. That is not to say I believe my way is right or wrong, but there seems to be a sense out there that Creative Real Estate is really risky, it’s too out there, and because of that it should be avoided at all costs. I have transacted traditionally in the past, but I have lost money, so for me it’s a case of once bitten, but that’s not to say I slam anyone who wishes to transact that way – good luck to them I say – give it a go!
A number of Traditional Real Estate teachers/mentors like Steve and Dymphna Boholt for example, have used various methods including vendor finance to transact properties successfully. If they’ve been open-minded about it, why can’t others be?
On the whole I’ve come to realise people’s attitudes come from a couple of places – fear, lack of knowledge, perhaps apathy and also stuck in a “system” that unfortunately banks and real estate agents etc… have created to ensure they continuously win and we lose. Fear of failure and looking bad in front of people, not taking the time to collect the facts or questioning someone’s qualifications around a topic, just jumping on that emotional bandwagon of “Yeh they said blah blah blah so it must be that way”, and people so used to doing things a certain way that anything outside of the process is just shot down in flames.
If we are supposed to be supportive of one another and work collaboratively with one another, it would be nice to think there could be some open-mindedness surrounding how real estate transactions take place – wouldn’t it????
Cheers, T43
Good points. People tend to put down things they don't understand.
I have found that people also get very protective of "their" way. It worked for them so it must be "the right" way. It annoys me when "experts" make blanket statements like "you can't make money out of buy, reno, sell" Dymphna (at her last workshop).
Can you please explain what Creative Real Estate is to you? And what type of Creative Real Estate are you involved in.
thanks.
Hi Catalyst
You also made a good point re: Dymphna. I’m actually surprised at that. I think she is more of a buy and hold type of person. I’m sure Cherie Barber would have something to say about her comment. Ah hello…..the woman has made millions from that strategy so it’s gotta work!
I was also disappointed when I attended a Metropole seminar with Michael Yardney a few months back, who point blank indicated that no-one will buy a place from you if you offer an Option. Really? I think I closed off at that point to anything further he had to say.
Creative Real Estate is using the Vendor Finance process in some way to buy/sell property. It might involve buying a house at a discount through the traditional means and on-selling using either an Instalment Contract, Deposit Finance or the Rent to Own process. Or alternatively buying for $1 and using a Sandwich Lease Option – which I’m utilising at the moment (due to my own financial and employment situation). I’m also considering Joint Ventures with private sellers who may be having issues selling their homes. Again, assisting them to sell with either one of the above strategies can be employed.
Hope that helps to explain…..cheers, Tamara
Couldn't agree more. People always seem to fear/hate what they don't understand. Most people think that one strategy can be used in the many different cycles of property.
Tony Fleming | Triumphant Property Group
http://www.triumphantpropertygroup.com.au
Email MeNSW Buyer's Agent specialising in Western Sydney-Blue Mountains-Orange-Albury
Thanks, I have been to a few of those free workshops where they talk about some different strategies but my property has been working well for me so I didn't see a need to change. Things are cruising along nicely and there's nothing for me to do. I don't really want to increase my portfolio so trying not to look. LOL.
But I'm getting a bit bored so looking for a new challenge.
Dymphna used to push CF+ regional properties. Now she's more into development to get cash flow.
Its an observation you've made Tamara43 .. and I would consider it right and wrong.
People graduate to a comfort zone. They learn tricks and trades from their parents and family members that can not only be bad .. but inherantly wrong.
More importantly .. people brought up on these ideas only feel comfortable working within that comfort zone .. most of the time.
You see .. in the aspect of you being somewhat right .. people will work within comfort zones and there will always be people who breach those comfort zones with new or original ideas, in areas such as property acquisition .. property maintainence .. property requirements and of course architectural design.
BUT .. delving back to the comfort zones .. there is also a larger market of people who will only find acceptable what they have traditionally dealt with previously.
So its ok to be a radical, but you have to work a lot of the time within an intense conservative framework in one way or another.
As a regular property radical I find some of the bank and financial institutions approaches to certain types of property difficult to accomodate. But on the same basis .. its their difficulty in accomodating that propety that makes that sector JUST THAT BIT MORE ATTRACTIVE TO ME. Hence my ability to deal in what other people would find … difficult sectors of the market.
You want to change the world with your ideas? Change it !
But you just might need to recognise in your radicalism that other people got there first. And that conservatism not only drives existing markets .. it allows radicals a BASE to start from.
Tamara43 wrote:Hi Catalyst You also made a good point re: Dymphna. I'm actually surprised at that. I think she is more of a buy and hold type of person. I'm sure Cherie Barber would have something to say about her comment. Ah hello…..the woman has made millions from that strategy so it's gotta work! I was also disappointed when I attended a Metropole seminar with Michael Yardney a few months back, who point blank indicated that no-one will buy a place from you if you offer an Option. Really? I think I closed off at that point to anything further he had to say. Creative Real Estate is using the Vendor Finance process in some way to buy/sell property. It might involve buying a house at a discount through the traditional means and on-selling using either an Instalment Contract, Deposit Finance or the Rent to Own process. Or alternatively buying for $1 and using a Sandwich Lease Option – which I'm utilising at the moment (due to my own financial and employment situation). I'm also considering Joint Ventures with private sellers who may be having issues selling their homes. Again, assisting them to sell with either one of the above strategies can be employed. Hope that helps to explain…..cheers, TamaraHi Tamara,
I know you are a big proponent of Rick's methods – and it seems apparent that he has made a success of his methods. Do you mind me asking how many separate deals you have successfully completed using these methods? Have you managed to replace your income with the success gained from these methods? I'm not asking to be negative at all, as I can see that given the right factors his theories seem sound, just interested as I have often listened to people who are very excited and talk with great authority on a particular method but when you dig a bit deeper it turns out they are only part way through completing their first deal and are still predominantly caught up in the hype from the seminar.
Over a number of years I have invested in a range of different types of property using differentt methods and strategies. The one thing I like to do before going down a particular path is to pick the brains of people who have been regularly successful at that particular field. As I am currently looking at Rick's methods I am keen to hear any info on your or other peoples experiences.
Don't forget, when you talk about different methods of gaining success, as well as your method, many many people have also had success using traditional methods too.
Cheers
Rhino
Hi Rhino
Whilst I understand what you are asking, the main aim of my topic was to invoke discussions surrounding “supporting one another” regarding real estate transactions in general.
For me it’s not about how successful I can be in relation to replacing my income. I’ve been a stay at home mum of two Special Needs kids for years. I haven’t had an income for a really long time so in this case I feel your question is irrelevant (to me anyway). My aim is to earn whatever I can in order to support these two kids into the future because they will need to be cared for long after I have gone.
In relation to Creative Real Estate…..I could rattle off at least 5 names of people I have spoken with that are Rick’s students that have made a success of it AND have, or are in the process of, replacing their incomes. Granted I have not checked their bank accounts as that would obviously be a breach of privacy, but I have no reason to mistrust them. I don’t see what they would gain from lying to me or other people about their situation. There are also numerous examples of people’s experiences on the Creative Real Estate Podcasts that you may want to listen to – accessible via iTunes.
Cheers, Tamara
Just my opinion but the key is to learn and grow – it is great to follow as long as you don't find yourself becoming a disciple of any particular person. Personally, I have paid for and read many books and attended many courses and no one idea is any better than the other.
Don. wrote:Just my opinion but the key is to learn and grow – it is great to follow as long as you don't find yourself becoming a disciple of any particular person. Personally, I have paid for and read many books and attended many courses and no one idea is any better than the other.This is my mentality. I am young and in no way ready to purchase property, however i believe that you can't determine which method is better as it all depends on the individuals circumstances.
I'm trying to learn a variety of different methods and will then utilise the ones which are most suitable to my needs and goals in both the short and long term.
Comments that are wise beyond your years. With that attitude and mentality, you will achieve success, because you will find the method that works for you and then act on it. Great to see people in your age group thinking about their future, keep it up!!!
Hey Tamara,
I appreciate your position, I know you said previously that you had a go with traditional Real Estate methods and it didn't work out. It's great that rather than give up, as many do in a similar situation, you have taken a proactive stance and continued to work to find a method that works for you. I have great respect for anyone that recognises that they can improve their situation and then goes after it.
I was not asking specifics to have a go at you in any way, I am just interested in hearing Rick's methods in a bit more detail from people other than Rick, who have made them work successfully. You had a number of posts in relation to the topic so i was just keen to hear more about how you have gone with it so far. I will follow up further with suggestions you made in the other thread.
When i read back over your original post here regarding the fact we should support each other more – I agree. One way of supporting is for those with lots of experience in particular fields to share their knowledge. I am by no means an expert in real estate, but I have had numerous experiences and investments over the years and i am happy to candidly discuss my experiences (good and bad) with others who are seeking knowledge. Having been to various seminars over the years(including the odd $3000 one), I have become sceptical when i see someone being touted as an all around great guy/girl who just wants to "share" his/her knowledge and "teach" others, but then feels the need to charge $3000+ per seat to do it. If they are doing it for the money alone – then surely (if they are so successful at making money from their field) they would be doing that instead of teaching. If as they say, it is not about the money, but about helping others, wouldn't a $300 ticket be more appropriate.
To summarise – I wholeheartedly agree in your suggestion that we should support each other in real estate investment both traditional and otherwise, I just feel we should be able to do that without the need for exhorbatant fees.
Hi Rhino,
Just a comment about people charging $3000 vs $300 for their intellectual property…..Courses cost money to put on:
1) There are ADMIN costs for all the material (including folders, photocopying notes/booklets, equipment required, prizes etc…)
2) STAFF costs – staff need to be paid to co-ordinate all course material, course bookings etc…
3) VENUE costs – room hire will be dependent on number of people attending, time of year the venue is booked, the location of the venue etc…
4) GUEST SPEAKER costs – this will vary and they need to be paid for attendance (eg: Lawyer fees for attendance)
5) COURSE SPEAKER costs – will depend on how much the speaker values their time and how much they cost their time out at
6) FOOD/DRINK costs – for 300 people that attend it can be quite pricey even for simple finger food (again dependent on the venue chosen)I’m sure there are other costs, but as you can imagine this all adds up. For a 3 day course this actually seems fair to me, especially if:
a) you also receive a CD of the full three days which you can review over and over again at your leisure (actually there’s another cost in itself to produce then send out to all participants), and
b) you get to attend a really nice cocktail event on one of the evenings.If you can do all that for $300 pp…..and still be in business…..I’ll take my hat off to you! I’m sure Steve McKnight would agree with me too.
Cheers, Tamara
Tamara43 wrote:Hi Rhino, Just a comment about people charging $3000 vs $300 for their intellectual property….. Courses cost money to put on: 1) There are ADMIN costs for all the material (including folders, photocopying notes/booklets, equipment required, prizes etc…) 2) STAFF costs – staff need to be paid to co-ordinate all course material, course bookings etc… 3) VENUE costs – room hire will be dependent on number of people attending, time of year the venue is booked, the location of the venue etc… 4) GUEST SPEAKER costs – this will vary and they need to be paid for attendance (eg: Lawyer fees for attendance) 5) COURSE SPEAKER costs – will depend on how much the speaker values their time and how much they cost their time out at 6) FOOD/DRINK costs – for 300 people that attend it can be quite pricey even for simple finger food (again dependent on the venue chosen) I'm sure there are other costs, but as you can imagine this all adds up. For a 3 day course this actually seems fair to me, especially if: a) you also receive a CD of the full three days which you can review over and over again at your leisure (actually there's another cost in itself to produce then send out to all participants), and b) you get to attend a really nice cocktail event on one of the evenings. If you can do all that for $300 pp…..and still be in business…..I'll take my hat off to you! I'm sure Steve McKnight would agree with me too. Cheers, Tamara300 people x $3000 each = $900,000
Even going to a 3 day course with guest speakers and cocktail events it seems to me there would be a fair profit margin here.
I have been to courses and seen courses advertised that are 1 day events, with no food and drink, no cocktail events and with only the main speaker with a few admin staff and they are charging this same price. That has been my experience. Granted, the course you describe above would certainly go more towards being worth it's money. I was not targetting Steve or Rick specifically as I haven't been to either of their courses. It was more a comment based on the courses I have been to and others I have seen advertised.
It just seems to me that a number operators running courses at these prices seem to be taking advantage of people. If, as they claim, they are making so much money using their advertised real estate method, why do they need to crank out more large profits from the courses that are touted as being run due to their genuine interest in helping others learn the techniques. If they have made their fortunes and have no need of extra money outside what they are already making, surely the courses can be run at cost??
Anyway, we're probably a bit off topic here.
I'm all for open minded thinking when it comes to property investment – especially where you can undertake methods that cut out the banks, such as some of Rick's do. I hope you're endeavours are going well.
I just get a bit cranky when i see spruikers coming in and tainting things for those that are genuine with what they are doing.
Yep agree, sounds like a lot of money. I would have to say that Rick actually charges his time out at a very hefty price. Can’t tell you exactly what it is, but I would assume it’s something like $500 per hour. It sounds like a lot of money to most, but I guess that’s what he values his time at, and that’s just how it is!
Agree with you regarding courses, you need to be picky and choose what you feel is best value for money. There are some courses I wouldn’t do either because of the cost. Leaving price aside, it then boils down to subject matter and who you feel is the best person to educate you on that particular piece of information.
I believe ASIC has actually cracked down on Real Estate gurus offering courses these days and they are being monitored very carefully. This is because of the likes of Henry Kaye and Roy Macdonald who seriously gave this industry a very bad name.
My opinion – some people do have a genuine interest in helping, but there are considerable costs involved which just can’t be avoided. Having said that, they are in business to MAKE money not lose it or break even. As nice as it sounds to say that you care and have a genuine interest in helping people – they still want to be able to profit. Then there are others whose course material is rubbish and they still charge like a wounded bull – agree….they “taint” it for the rest who course material is great! The only way you can sift through those people is by word of mouth.
Happy 30th post from one 30th poster to another!
One other thing I have found with these courses – Even if you don't end up going fully into their prescribed methods and becoming a student and going the whole hog – there is still often a lot of good info that can be taken away from the course and used to augment your own methods. Even when so heavily overpriced there is still good info to be had and, of equal value to the course itself, i found was the simple networking and chatting with other like minded people on the course – plenty of good info to be had there too.
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