All Topics / Help Needed! / Family Trust and negatively geared IP, and Company structure for “Personal services income”
Hi all, I've scoured the web for advice on this but there isn't anything specific
I am a SAHM, of three lovely children. I am not likely to return to paid work for considerable amount of time as my kids are very young (infact one is a new born).
My husband runs his own business as sole trader (plumber).
Me and my husband have 2 negatively geared IP, one of them is 99% in my name, and 1% his. the other is 50% each. This setup was done because that was the advice given to us back then when purchasing the property. At that time my personal income from work was considerably higher than DH, as he had just started his sole trading business.
Our plans kind of got stuffed with untimely arrival of kids, forcing me to leave the workforce earlier than I had anticipated.
My problem is that since the majority of ownership of IP is in my name, and I am not working any more, I had to keep carrying the losses forward, for the past few years.
even though I am, (and have been right from the start), been doing all my biz admin/booking, I can't be employed by DH as his is a sole trader.
Last month we saw a financial/business advisor who's recommendation to us was basically to
1. setup a Family trust and put both IPs in it, and have some of Dh's income distributed through the trust.
I asked my accountant to do this for us and she is opposing it on the bases that it will cost us unnecessary expense,to set up/ maintain/pay CGT,stamp duty etc. and since the losses can not be distributed by the trust I will be in a worse position than before. (although the main reason of us wanting the trust, was to protect them, considering our biz possible future liabilities, and income distribution being secondary)
2. set up a company instead of the sole trader, as both of as directors and 50% each share holder. This would mean being employed by our own company, and drawing wages, and what ever is left over being paid out as dividends. This will also suppose to ease the process if our biz expands in future and we employ other people, this will also allow my super fund to be resurrected again, since its sitting there doing nothing as a non contributing member.
Again our accountant opposed it, based on too much cost of operating the company, (fees, work cover, super etc), and the main one being that DH can't be employed by his own company, since his work is "Personal services income" cause its earned mainly as reward for an individual's personal skills, and my existence adds no value ( I beg to differ in that my existence keeps him out of jail, not lodging tax returns but that's beside the point).
the advisor did made us aware of all the cost involved, didn't give us a figure as it was my accountants job to crunch the numbers, but we knew we would have some substantial cost to get this started.
at this point I am really confused. I know that there must be a way to resolve this issue, cause frankly at this stage the only feasible solution for me would be working from home, and since I know what I am doing already would prefer to just keep doing our biz books etc but get paid for it, so I don't have to cringe looking at my losses every year.
My questions are
did I pay $600 to an advisor who gave us wrong/illegal advice?
My accountant is incompetent/lazy and is trying to get out of doing complicated things like trusts and company tax., and I should find a better accountant.
Is the company solution, really illegal? Google is not helping me much.
Since all the negative gearing losses are locked up in the trust and can not be distributed, till trust makes a profit/income. how will I know when this will happen? what is considered an income? why doesn't our income that gets put into trust not counted? does this mean we will keep making a loss till the properties become positively geared, at some point in future (probably more than 10 years away)?
I am not trying to do anything illegal, but I really don't knwo what to do when two seemingly professional people whom are getting paid by me, give em two completely opposing solutions, accusing the other as being wrong. Any help is much appreciated. Thank you in advance.
The 99/1% structure is not a good idea at the best of times. Owning 1% is virtually worthless but being on title it exposes the person to large asset protection issues because they will need to guarantee/be on the loan for that property. It does give some control in that the property cannot be sold withou the approval of the 1% owner, but this could be acheive by a caveat. This structure will also hurt future borrowing capacity at the 1% person is liable for the whole debt by can only rely on 1% of the rent. Who advised on this structure?
The so called adviser did give simplistic and bad advice – Are the legally able to advise on tax and trusts? Only solicitors can advise on the set up and legal implications of a trust as this is legal advice. Tax agents could advise on the tax consequences, but this is only a small part of what you need advising on – what if you did all this and then another beneficiary took control of the trust for example.
Your advisor should have told you the stamp duty and CGT consequences of moving properties into a trust – loan break and entry costs, conveyancing too. What about the clawback provisions of the bankruptcy act, conveyancing act and corporations act? The fact that you cannot leave trust assets in your will, etc too. Duties and responsibilities of a trustee, rights of beneficiaries, what happens on bankruptcy, incapacity. etc.
other points
Little asset protection on transfer to a trust too.
If your husband were to be able to distribute money to the trust then he could also distribute to you and this could offset any loss.
Sole traders can employ people.
Is your husband's income really subject to the PSI rules? Get some proper advice on this too.
Setting up a company to operate may be a good idea. But having 2 directors is just silly! Directors need to guarantee everything and often go down with the ship when it sinks. Doubling exposure without any benefits.
Yes you did get bad advice which was probably illegally given, and was possibly negligent.
I would suggest you first get some advice on the PSI issues. if your husband can operate under a company the company could either employ you, or dividends could flow through to the shareholders – which could be a discretionary trust and then diverted to you to eat up some of the losses.
Your accountant doesn't seem to be very good either. Main reason to use a pty ltd company is to limit liability.
What state is the property in?
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
I agree with Terry. Your advice thus far sounds interesting to say the least, suggest you seek other opinions.
RPI | Certus Legal Group / PRO Town Planners
http://www.certuslegal.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeProperty Lawyer & Town Planner
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