All Topics / Help Needed! / BANK VALUATION LOWER THAN PURCHASE PRICE

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  • Profile photo of thebigothebigo
    Member
    @thebigo
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 26

    Hi All,

             YOu might see from previous posts, but i purchased a 2 bedroom apartment in Hughesdale VIC off the plan in early 2010 for $485,000.

    The apartment is finally nearing completion (5 weeks away) and the bank (CBA) valuation has come in at $460,000.

    Obviously i bought in 2010 when the market was at a peak, and values have since dropped, but looking at other new apartments in the area that are 12 months away, they are selling off the plan for $485+ in very comparable size/area.

    The valuation report listed 3 comparable sales, which were noted as being far from comparable as Hughesdale is a small boutique suburb so they had to go outside of the suburb and timeframe (6 months is their norm, they extended it to 12 months).

    The first was a same size, 2008 apartment which went for $433,000 and was listed as being inferior in all aspects e.g. build, location, finishes.

    The other two were in Carnegie & Murrumbeena (closer to CBD), and these went for $505,000 and $495,000 and were slightly closer to the city, and both brand new when sold. Listed as being superior in build and location.

    My question to you all, is that since 3 years has passed since i bought, i'm entitled to walk away from my contact with my deposit. I really want to live in this place, as it will be my first home so if i recind, i lose 9,000 of first home buyers grant which isn't available anymore (i got 18k but it's not 9k).

    Should i send a letter to the developer, asking for a reduction off the contact of sale amount, seeing as though i can walk away only 5 weeks out from their settlement, and that if i have a bank val supporting 460k, it might put doubt in the developers mind as to what he might be able to sell it for if he had to put it back on the market?

    I have the 25k to make up the difference, but would prefer not to have that money tied up in the place. I estimate it to be worth at least 470k as the lack of comparable sales would be one factor. The location is awesome (right near trains, buses, chadstone shopping center, 150m away from heart of oakleigh etc).

    Should i try and get 10k knocked off the price, and do you think as a developer he would look at the bank val i received, work out the added costs to put the unit back onto the market (without stamp duty savings to the buyer anymore), or should i just cop the 25k and wait for it to recover in time.

    I would appreciate all feedback!!

    Cheers BIGO

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    Hi Big O

    In regards to the valuation, I'd tackle it in two ways.

    Firstly, find three comparable sales within the last 6 months that support your argument and have your banker/broker use these to contest the valuation.

    Secondly, order an upfront valuations via a different lender. Hopefully a different valuer is appointed and the result changes. If using a broker – they can arrange this for you.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
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    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of thebigothebigo
    Member
    @thebigo
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 26

    Thanks Jamie, seems as though you're the resident go-to on the site! (which is much apprecaited).

    The problem is, i can't find 3 comparable sales in the last 6 months as there isn't any, and the ones that have been sold are off the plan so not yet completed or settled. (Identical development around the corner being sold as the slab is being laid, they are going for $485k + but i was of the understanding that off the plan and not yet settled developments can't be used for comparable sales).

    Due to being in my work for only 3 months (got a promotion of sorts to a new company), the only lender that would lend 10% interest only of the big banks with a reasonable rate was CBA.

    I've sent a letter to the developers solicitor (via mine) to say that i'm 25k short of the contract price in valuation, i can raise half of this however they will need to meet me halfway in order to allow me to settle successfully in 5 weeks time.

    I guess the costs of reselling, the fact theyve already paid agents commissions on my sale etc would mean that they would need to sell the place for at least $495k in order to break even on the unit, which is highly unlikely due to fact the building is near complete so no stamp duty savings for buyers, not to mention it was valued by a bank at 35k less than this figure.

    What do you think? Worth a go?

    Profile photo of TheFinanceShopTheFinanceShop
    Participant
    @thefinanceshop
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,271

    Technically you need to provide 3 comparable sales (this website may help http://house.ksou.cn) however I have contacted several valuers and discussed with them what we need done together with additional commentary and they have increased the valuation (but this is limited to a certain amount).

    If your banker/broker is confident get them to call the valuer first rather than send the request first. 

    Regards

    Shahin

    TheFinanceShop | Elite Property Finance
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    Profile photo of thebigothebigo
    Member
    @thebigo
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 26

    The problem is there isn't any comparable sales in the area.

    The development in Hughesdale is the first multilevel apartment of it's kind, with any before it being done 20 years ago out of brick and quite old/run down basic build.

    The only ones i can find in the vicinity that are comparable are in Oakleigh and are off the plan (only slab and framing has gone up), therefore i can't use these due to the fact that it hasn't been completed/settled. Although these have sold for 485k, the same as what i paid.

    I have the 25k, so from my point of view the only real option i have is to try and get a discount from the developer to bridge the gap, so that i'm only putting in 12.5k of my own money to settle.

    I wasn't sure if negotiating a contract after a low valuation is something that occurs often.

    Profile photo of TheFinanceShopTheFinanceShop
    Participant
    @thefinanceshop
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,271

    What im suggesting is that your banker or broker call the valuer and negotiate the increase verbal rather than send a dispute form first. Also have you considered ordering a valuation with another bank?

    Regards

    Shahin

    TheFinanceShop | Elite Property Finance
    http://www.elitepropertyfinance.com
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    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
    Blocked
    @freckle
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,680
    thebigo wrote:

    Should i try and get 10k knocked off the price, and do you think as a developer he would look at the bank val i received, work out the added costs to put the unit back onto the market (without stamp duty savings to the buyer anymore), or should i just cop the 25k and wait for it to recover in time.

    Are you buying for sentimental reason or financial/investment. If the latter I would be walking unless they came to the party on at least 20k reduction. Personally that still wouldn't keep me in the game.

    Developers are cutting back on stock holdings and land plots left right and center as they try to adjust to a new market dynamic mainly little demand for new. That scenario isn't going to change for a few years at this point. Developers are going bust all over Aussie and the priority is to rationalise. You have a lot of leverage because you can guarantee you are not the only one thinking about walking from these deals. Vic has one of the highest new build cancelations in Aus at present.

    My guess is that these apt's will struggle to realise $420-430k within 2 years as second hand units. I seriously doubt you'll see any CG for at least 10 years.

    I'd walk and watch and wait for a while. Renting is cheaper than the interest costs on your loan anyway. 

    Profile photo of thebigothebigo
    Member
    @thebigo
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 26

    Thanks Freckle.

    I'm buying for a bit of both, as moving in for 12 months to get first home buyers (plus i NEED to move out of home, the parents are doing my head in), but then i want to rent it out after that as an investment property which i would be looking to hold for at least 8 – 10 years.

    I really want to get into the market, and having seen others being sold up the road for similar amounts, in the bottom of a market, I'm personally expecting to see CG but very minimal for the next 2 – 3 years, and then hopefully the market moves upwards again at a faster rate.

    The biggest issue i think with the VAL was that there was no comparable sales. This makes me think they've used the figures available (albeit not really comparable) and placed mine in the middle.  433k – 505k the middle is 460k

    I have the cash, I've got the 25k plus another 70k which will sit in my offset (until i pick my 3rd investment), and I'm doing interest only 10% deposit loan.

    I guess i came on here hoping that people agreed that i should negotiate with the developer to get a bit of a price relief off the contract price. Which i'm going to do as I would think for 12.5k he would have to spend that amount again in agents fees, marketing etc.

    They really are in a nice location, literally 150m away from heart of Oakleigh shops which has nice cafes. Right near Chadstone Shopping Centre, Oakleigh train station, princess dandenong hwy/monash fwy, Hughesdale P.S, across the road from Sacred Heart High School. So i'm convinced that this will go down the path of it's neighbours in Carnegie, Murrumbeena, East Bentleigh and provide good growth as population keeps increasing. Not to mention theres a bucket load of work to infrastructure to be done in Oakleigh which is part of a new zoning/redevelopment plan to make Oakleigh another city style hub.

    Maybe I'm trying to justify to myself too much but at the early stage i'm not too concerned about lack of short term CG as i'm going to hold this property due to it's rental attractiveness for location etc.

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069
    thebigo wrote:

    Due to being in my work for only 3 months (got a promotion of sorts to a new company), the only lender that would lend 10% interest only of the big banks with a reasonable rate was CBA.

    I wouldn't worry about rate here – it should be the least of your concerns.

    If you're in a position whereby you have to purchase this property (which I'm not sure if you are or aren't) then simply getting a lender to formally approve the loan should be your biggest priority, which may involve using a different lender.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of DerekDerek
    Member
    @derek
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 3,544

    Hi TheBigO,

    OTP valuations are often problematical.

    Certainly explore the possibility of seeking out and using a different bank in conjunction with a broker who can work the pre-val process. Success on this pathway will solve the 'problem'

    If I now come back to the current low valuation issue.

    1. Reading your posts and comments it appears as if you think the property is worth $486K. Do you really think this or has psychology come into play?

    2. If you do believe the property is worth $485K before you walk away factor the loss of $9K (FHOG reduction) and probable  increase in stamp duty costs you would incur if you bought a finished product which seem easier to value. Sure you could go OTP again but you would, again, be at the mercy of the valuers.

    3. The difference between purchase and valuation (net $16K with FHOG allowance) is a small percentage of the overall cost of the unit. Generally speaking this minor discrepancy will wash through over time – like a pimple on a pumpkin is a phrase that comes to mind – and if the market performs 'well'

    At the end of the day you need to make this decision – think it through, give careful consideration and make the decision that suits you.

    Just some thoughts for you to consider.

    PS Your first post indicates you are entitled to walk away from this contract. Has this been confirmed by your soilicitor?

    Profile photo of thebigothebigo
    Member
    @thebigo
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 26

    Hi Derek,

                   At a minimum, i believe the property to be worth around 470 – 475k as there are comparable sales (just not completed yet as they are still in construction).

    On top of this i factor in that I'm getting 9k first home buyers grant which i wouldn't have if i walk away, so that justify my 485k purchase price IMO.

    Agree with you that a 16k difference after taking into account the 9k of FHOG is minimal in the scheme of things, and I am willing to hold onto this property for a while (it should get at a minimum 4% rental yield ($370 per week) based on being close to public transport, chadstone etc).

    I've spoken to the solicitor and both parties can rescind at this point in time, whilst it would be rare for the developer to do it when the market is lower than my contract price, there is every chance he could crack the shits with me asking for the 12500 reduction, and put it back on the market, even if financially it doesn't make sense.

    I've since had my solicitor send a letter to theirs, stating that the 25k shortfall is going to make it hard to complete settlement, and i can raise half of this, of which the other half we have asked for in reduction from overall cost. The developer will either say yes, no (rescind if you want), or no (i'm rescinding and putting it back on the market – UNLIKELY).

    I come on these forums just to get some unbiased opinions and they definately differ from each person but the general consensus is that if i went and got it valued by an independant valuer, after the completion of the other oakleigh units in 12 months time, the property would be valued at least 475k which is fine with me.

    It was more the negotiation side with the developer that i was unsure of, but i figured i'm in a good enough position to ask the question. Especially considering i was lied to throughout the whole process with start dates etc, the purchase was meant to start within 6 months of when i bought, but we are just nearing completion 3 years later!!! Mind you it gave me time to save and purchase in South Yarra so it's not all bad.

    Profile photo of thebigothebigo
    Member
    @thebigo
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 26

    Thanks Jamie.

    I'm legally allowed to walk away from the deal (and take my deposit back) should i wish to do so.

    I've got the additional 25k to cover the difference from the contract price and the banks valuation however i guess i was more seeking feedback as to whether or not entering negotiations based on a lower val was common and worth while.

    I guess i've got nothing to lose, they will either call me out on my bluff or they will realise the costs associated with putting it back on the market would be a lot higher, not to mention the valuation was lower so they might have trouble getting another buyer at 485k.

    Kind regards,

    BigO

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    You shouldn't be offering to pay more than the valuation I think.

    You are not legally obliged to continue so treat this as a brand new purchase. You normally wouldn't pay $10k above a valuation price so why do so now – even if you are getting a $9k grant.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    mattnz
    Participant
    @mattnz
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 574

    Can't you use other sales in the same unit block as yours which will settle at the same time to demonstrate the value?

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
    Participant
    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    I agree with Freckle i am unsure why you wouldn't use the valuation to your advantedge and tell them you are terminating unless the Contract price is re-negotiated in your favour.

    Never sure why you would you would pay 20K over the valuation as that will shoot you in the foot in the future should you ever want to realise equity in the property.

    I don't know the area but sure for a settlement and capital reduction to keep his financier happy the developer would rather bank something that be trying to re-market the property.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
    Blocked
    @freckle
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,680
    thebigo wrote:

    I'm buying for a bit of both,

    You can't mix sentimentality with investing. It's fatal.. If you want a home you take a hit to the pocket in exchange for a warm fuzzy. You want an investment then the figures either stack up or they don't. 

    As an investment proposition this is definitely a walker. Actually it's a runner. I'd run from this deal as fast as my little ol' legs would carry me.

    Profile photo of thebigothebigo
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    @thebigo
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 26

    Hi Qlds, 

                Hughesdale is 15km from CBD, surrounded by good suburbs in Carnegie, East Bentleigh, Murrumbeena, Oakleigh so position is good for future growth and rental appeal.

    The valuation from the bank IMO is below market value, as they even admitted they don't have enough previous sales history in the area to compare. It's the first of it's kind in the suburb, but i can guarantee that in the next 5 years there will be at least 10 of these types of developments in the area as it's all been rezoned etc for higher density living.

    I'm definately using the valuation to my advantage, i've submitted a letter with the valuation to the developer and demanded a reduction in the contract amount otherwise i will rescind.

    In all honesty though, i need to move out of home (i'm 27 and at the point of cracking), plus i'm going to move out of Hughesdale within a year (due to claiming first home buyers), then rent it out and hold long term.

    IMO the property is worth at least 470 – 475k, therefore i just need to wait that year and hopefully the growth is there. Melbourne had 1000 auctions last weekend at a clearance rate of 70%…….We struggled to crack 60% the previous year now we haven't dropped below it, and i believe the market is on the up in inner and inner south east suburbs.

    I've got the money to cover the difference, plus i've got another 50k to work with for future investments (not to mentioned my south yarra apartment which i bought in Sep12 and already have gained some equity in CG).

    Profile photo of thebigothebigo
    Member
    @thebigo
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 26

    Unfortunately not because the valuation is done before settlement of these units, and you can't use the incomplete developments as comparable sales until they are settled :( So theres all these people in the same building in the same boat as me, but there is plenty going up around that are due for completion 2013/2014

    Profile photo of thebigothebigo
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    @thebigo
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 26

    I would argue that in times when banks are being very conservative, on a 480k property, you would pay 10k over the valuation price. Especially if they admitted they had big issues finding comparable sales (seeing as though they are such statistically based this really makes it hard for them so they go very conservative).

    The 3 figures they compared my 485 purchase to were 433 (far inferior old place), 495 (better location apparently), 505 (superior location/build).

    In the middle of it is 460k which is the figure they got

    Profile photo of thebigothebigo
    Member
    @thebigo
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 26

    Sentiment wasn't the appropriate word, more so the need to move out of home. As i said I'm at the point of cracking and need to get out ASAP.

    I don't see the issue in getting a nice 2 bedroom apartment that i'm planning to hold for 10 years, which should provide around 400 per week min rent (4.2% yield) in a growing market (there's no doubting we are at the bottom but 2013 has already shown signs of recovery).

    By requirement i have to live in it for 12 months for FHOG so as soon as that is complete, i'm out and going to rent it out.

    As an investment, say the developer gives me $12,500 off my contract price, that means the valuation is only 15k lower, and i've already explained what myself, and a few other people in the industry who i've spoken to believe the place to be worth higher than that figure.

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