All Topics / Commercial Property / my newbie investing experience shared and direction advice needed please

Viewing 18 posts - 1 through 18 (of 18 total)
  • Profile photo of Ralph ZRalph Z
    Member
    @ralph-z
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 22

    Dear all:

     I've been surfing this site for a few weeks after finishing Steve's "0-130 properties in 3 years", and I've also just finished Chris Lang's "how  investing in commercial property really works', both books are very enlightening as well as the experts in this forum, so I thought I should share my experience mainly for the newbies as i didn't really start well and also some advice from the experts would be really appreciated. So here we go:

    I started my investment 1 year ago, and then I bought my first so called investment property about the same time without any proper study.  It was an off plan 2 bedroom apartment in Zetland, Sydney. I did not really know how to invest in residential properties at the time, the main reasons i bought it were: 

    -I really liked the floor plan

    -It was in an area I familiar with

    -I thought the development of new green square would give a nice capital gain which I now believe it wouldn't be done within 10 years probably

    -really low vacancy rate in this area

    I bought the property for 65,1000, and I paid 24,789 for stamp duty ( really unwise as no stamp duty for properties under 600k at the time of purchase), I got a westpac loan of 520,000 from one of my broker friend without comparing, its current rate  is 5.85%. The property settled in Sep/12, the current rent is 660 per week, it almost covers the interest and outgoings.

    After realizing the property wasn't a good investment, I started to educate my self by reading books and forums which I believe all the beginners should do. 

    So, that was my first investment, should I keep holding the property until the capital gain is realized  or should I sell? But I  don't think I can get a good offer at the moment. I am thinking of holding it for a while.

    I am in a position of invest again with 1mil cash . I am thinking of purchasing commercial properties with strong tenants (steady stable cash flow and maybe some capital gain later) after reading the books and forums. Where do I get those professional property managers? Should I get the loans ready now? like a pre-approved loan?

    I will go overseas in 3 months time, and I will be away for about 5 years. Do you think that's a good choice or 3 months rime is too rush? Should i consider other investment options like shares  etc. 

    One more question, I met a broker who told me he's 1 of the 20 platinum brokers in Sydney which can get much lower rate than other brokers, is that true?

    Please advice, thank you!

    Profile photo of Ralph ZRalph Z
    Member
    @ralph-z
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 22

    what I've also learnt is don't invest in an area with so many similar properties,coz at the time of leasing and selling, the competition will definitely hit you 

    Profile photo of xdrewxdrew
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    @xdrew
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 479

    Thanks for your insight dzha1408 !

    What you'll find is that if its being offered and its a genuinely good rate, there will be several brokers who will be on top of it for getting the best rate. The guys on here should be able to get you close enough to a great rate.

    Point is .. if you got the best deal .. the rate plus or minus a percentage point shouldnt make that much of a difference. You should have worked out how to handle the deal with 2 full interest points difference. Otherwise you werent calculating for a change in rates .. which .. regardless of the time period WILL happen.

    Like any other investment .. you should be looking for a sought after commercial property .. and not a singular one either. Commercial properties may pay significantly better but you MUST have an offset for the risk component on commercial otherwise you are banking on trouble. If it stays vacant .. the vacancy can be a lot longer on commercial depending on economic circumstances. You want your commercial property golden egg, back it up with a couple of income producing assets that are relatively secure to match it. For your own safety.

    dzha1408 the other thing i will relate is that you seem to have run on your first investment on a good rental return rather than the overall quality of the property. You should always ask yourself even when purchasing a property how you would sell the property and to whom.

    There are no mistakes that cannot be righted with time and effort. Hold your property and see if you can improve it over time. Change your tenancy mix if possible. There is no challenge that cannot be met through using your head.

    Profile photo of Ralph ZRalph Z
    Member
    @ralph-z
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 22

    Hi xdrew, thanks for your comments.

    You are right, there isn't much difference between 1 or 2 interest points after I applied the numbers which I didn't realize before. For the new investment, what I'm thinking is get a 2 mil property, I will leave the 1mil in the bank to offset the interest and maybe rent when it is vacant, because all I want is a trouble free investment while I am away or at least less troublesome, I can gain some capital and steady cash flow when I am back.

    cheers.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Before you start investing again you need some professional advice.

    You will likely be a non resident for tax purpose and this will mean a whole new approach is needed. You also need to consider asset protection and tax strategies for your money.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TheFinanceShopTheFinanceShop
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    @thefinanceshop
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,271

    Like anything you need to know what you are doing when it comes to commercials properties. Finance is a different story as well. Hate to say it but I have a lot of investors in your situation and sooner or later they offload the high outgoings unit and upgrade/downgrade to a house. I am not saying you should do this but I bet your strata is hurting you. 

    Re the last comment about platinum brokers – that's baloney. I have 'priority service' with 2 lenders but all that means is that the application gets look at faster. Its a level playing field for rates whether you put through 1 deal or 100 deals. Lenders look at your profile when pricing not how loyal the broker is. 

    Re a pre-approval yes you should get it sooner than later as it will dictate your budget and ceiling and if servicing is tight even scenarios. For example, if I get a rental of x then I can borrow y and so on. Also don't forget to get a credit assessed pre-approval rather than a robot approval. 

    ….. and don't be surprised if your plan changes at least 10 times. 

    Regards

    Shahin

    TheFinanceShop | Elite Property Finance
    http://www.elitepropertyfinance.com
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    Residential and Commercial Brokerage

    Profile photo of Ralph ZRalph Z
    Member
    @ralph-z
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 22

    thanks Terry, I think I will go and talk to an accountant soon.

    Profile photo of Ralph ZRalph Z
    Member
    @ralph-z
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 22

    Hi Shahin:

     Thanks for your advice. Guess I will talk to the professionals soon to clarify finance, tax, direction issues.

    Re to the broker issue, he told me he finances millions of dollars per year, that's why he can get a better rate, doesn't that make sense?

    Profile photo of TheFinanceShopTheFinanceShop
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    @thefinanceshop
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,271

    So do I and many other brokers but it doesn't make a difference. We all need to send the scenario to the lender and they would need to get pricing approval. 

    TheFinanceShop | Elite Property Finance
    http://www.elitepropertyfinance.com
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    Residential and Commercial Brokerage

    Profile photo of Ralph ZRalph Z
    Member
    @ralph-z
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 22

    So, you are saying its the lender who makes the call not the broker? Is it possible to negotiate rates with banks if I've got good financial status? cheers

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213
    Ralph Z wrote:
    So, you are saying its the lender who makes the call not the broker? Is it possible to negotiate rates with banks if I've got good financial status? cheers

    It is the lender's money and they are the ones that give the discount. Brokers can assist by knowing what the going discount rate is. Your financial status is not the main factor, rather it is the size of the loan, the size of the total borrowings, the LVR, the other products that you may be taking or have and sometimes profession – medical for eg.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TheFinanceShopTheFinanceShop
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    @thefinanceshop
    Join Date: 2012
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    Morning Ralph,

    It comes down to:

    1. Amount of funds you are borrowing

    2. Relationship strength (i.e other products they you may have with the bank)

    3. Your LVR 

    4. The actual Lender

    What I mean by point 4 is that lenders will vary in terms of how they price. Don't expect CBA or Westpac to give you a big interest rate discount. Suncorp is arguably the best when it comes to pricing negotiations and NAB is somewhere in the middle. Also, depending on what your loan amount is I wouldn't be solely focused on pricing. You also need to consider the features associated with the product and even more important the policy. 

    Regards

    Shahin

    TheFinanceShop | Elite Property Finance
    http://www.elitepropertyfinance.com
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Residential and Commercial Brokerage

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
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    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    I've done ok with WBC and CBA pricing requests over the years.

    Sometimes certain brokers linked with certain aggregators can offer exclusive products only available through the broker channel – that might be what the broker is getting at.

    There are also times where a brokers relationship with a lender can result in a better rate for the client.  

    Having said all that, it should never be primarily about rate – structure is more important so I'd be quizzing the broker over this rather than "what his best rate is." 

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
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    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of Ralph ZRalph Z
    Member
    @ralph-z
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 22

    Thanks all, I am thinking of borrowing 1mil for a commercial property, 50%LVR, or invest some of my money into shares or bonds  and then buy a smaller commercial property. Still not decided, so I am thinking of talking to a financial advisor to clear my mind a bit.

     cheers

    Profile photo of Scott No MatesScott No Mates
    Participant
    @scott-no-mates
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 3,856

    You will have different LVRs on the shares compared to the Commercial IP. Different rates may also apply – so you may need to consider how you structure your loans.

    Profile photo of Ralph ZRalph Z
    Member
    @ralph-z
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 22

    I am a newbie, haven't bought any bonds or stocks before, you can buy them with loans as well? I am kind of shocked.

     cheers

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Yes, you can borrow to buy shares and have the loan secured by the shares – often referred to as a margin loan.

    Don't know about bonds – it could be done, but I don't know if it happens.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
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    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    At $1M on a Commercial property at a 50% lvr you should be able to get a half decent rate at the moment

    Hate to say that is not the case with shares or bonds at the moment as neither loans have come down much wiithrecent RBA cuts.  

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

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