Hi Everyone,
We have just bought our third IP in Mackay two months ago (four bed brick house on concrete slab). We had a building and pest done, although not thermal imaging as builder said likelihood of termites was lower in a brick house.
Having said this we didn't know we would need thermal imaging for the pipes. Since purchasing we have had the hotwater system fixed twice and two electrician callouts as it turns out the pool lights were tripping the mains. We also had the property sit vacant for four weeks (yes, in Mackay) as the property management company we signed on with did almost nothing and this is despite us negotiating in the contract to have access to the property three weeks prior to settlement to find a tenant.
Needless to say we thought that our little lemon would start to get back on track after all these teething problems, only to yesterday receive a call saying that there is a leek in the hot water pipes that can't be found. The plumber has given us three options with worst case ball park figures of up to $20,000. We are beside ourselves as the insurance company won't cover us for finding the leak unless there is damage…but we can't even tell if there is damage that can't be seen!
Has anyone experienced this or is a plumber who could give us some advice? The plumber has said the 'cheapest' option is to get a sonar or thermal detection company to come out and pinpoint the leak with a cost of repairing (not including the thermal/sonar people) around $5,000. Second option is to run a new hot water line through the roof and then have the pipes on the outside of the wall in the newly renovated bathroom (on top of the tiles), around $10,000. Or, have the new pipes fitted properly on the inside of the wall at around $20,000.
I feel sick about this as I am in Sydney and also understand nothing about plumbing. We are both devastated as we have never read about this happening before and paid for full landlord insurance at a premium thinking any unforeseen disaster like this would be covered.
Thanks,
Peach
Sounds to me your plumber is charging you through the roof! Get a second quote as some of these prices you have quoted are ridicules.
Hi Joe,
Yes we have talked to a few builder friends this morning who have said the same thing. These are estimates he gave not actual quotes as this has just come to light last night however he was including the repair of the damage as well, so tiling in the bathroom, cabinets in the kitchen…what ever has to be ripped up to find it.
As it turns out there is only one guy I can find in Mackay that does sonar leak detection (Terrascan) and charges $150, which I thought sounded pretty good considering what we are facing. Unfortunately he thinks that with the slab he won't be able to hear the leak so we are back at square one.
Next step, two more opinions.
How has the plumber come to the conclusion there is a leak in the pipe? If you had a leak, and its leaking all day there would be signs of damage around. He wouldn’t be the first plumber trying the good old scare tactic. If he was a decent plumber he should atleast be able to locate the leak to a specific area.
Apparently the tenants keep running out of hot water despite the thermostat being replaced last month and the water metre continues to run even when all the taps are turned off.
With locating it there is a concrete slab and no sign of damage…on the surface, which is why I am cranky at the insurance…how do I know there isn't damage that can't be seen!?
If the water meter still runs while the tap is off then you have a leak. The hot water issue could be you might have a small tank? Remember, if your tap has a leaky washer the meter Will still turn. There must be evidence of a leak some where. If there isn’t I wouldn’t worry about it.
I am not a plumber but if it were my house I would turn the hotwater system and water off, disconnect the outlet pipe and plug the outlet from the hotwater system. Then turn your water back on. Once your hot water system is full then check your water meter. If it is still ticking over then you know the leak is not the hot water lines, and possibly just a coincidence – like Joe said small tank maybe?. You would then have it narrowed down to your inlet/main water lines or possibly a leaking tank, which is unlikely if it's not visible.
If on the other hand it has stopped ticking over then you know there is a leak from the disconnected pipe onwards.
I just think it sounds a bit strange with the running out of hot water thing. It would have to be quite a large leak for the hotwater system to not keep up! I think the tank may be too small and there is a leak elsewhere and they have just jumped to conclusions.
Get the tenants to check ALL taps even the ones outside the house (I have alot of issues with the outside ones), and find out the size of the hot water system.
I know this would be a bit difficult not being in the same town.
All the best with it.
Peachy you can buy an infrared thermometer for $30 off ebay You wont have to calibrating it if your just looking for a heat source as opposed to actually measuring temp
Turn off your hot water system (water supply) and check your meter again. This should indicate/confirm its a hot water side leak.
I think you need to assess if any of these were pre existing problems that could or should have been know about. The hot water thing sounds fishy to me. If you can show that any of these problems were pre existing and not disclosed to you as the buyer you may have a claim for compensation to rectify this problem.
I'm not sure if houses fall under the merchantable goods provisions in commercial transactions. Some of the legal beagles here may be able to clear that one up
Nguli, question is why didn’t the plumber do this? Couldn’t be bothered I guess
I have previously used Scott Hogan in Sydney. They use sonar to find leaks. I had a fair idea of the location of the pipes but they were able to find the leak through a 150 mm slab. There should be no excuse for not finding the leak if it is audible to the sonar operator (these guys are usually plumbers operating the equipment).
Not sure Joe?.. Maybe thought "rich out of town property investor – we'll take him for all he's worth"
Or he just isn't too sure himself?
Or I am completely off the mark!?
I work with electricity not water but the principle of fault finding is similar – If you can't pin point the fault, break the circuit up to at least narrow it down.
I would definitely get another plumber in and just say you have a leak somewhere. Don't say you have a hot water leak as this could put them on the wrong track. Let them work out if it is a hot water leak themselves.
I know with electricians I have come across alot that are great at new installations but can't fault find to save their life. Maybe this plumber was the same?
Freckle wrote:Turn off your hot water system (water supply) and check your meter again. This should indicate/confirm its a hot water side leak.This is a much easier option than disconnecting the pipes as I suggested! haha you can tell I am not a plumber or had much to do with hot water systems!
I am not a plumber, but quotes that your plumber provided to you sound ridiculous. Did you try to talk to your insurance company? May be they will agree to cover some of the cost.
Thanks for all your help everyone!
I have arranged for a second opinion to go through this afternoon and will definitely ask if the above has been done. We were also thinking it may be worth paying the $150 to get the sonar guy out as this amount *suddenly* sounds like a walk in the park if it reduces the cost of repairs by a lot and means we don't have to rip into the bathroom reno
I am worried that they think this 'rich property investor from out of town' can afford it and we are being taken for a massive ride. Reality is we aren't and were really hoping to save to have a family over the next year so this is quite shattering for us!
Let us know what the outcome is. I’m guessing It’s nothing serious, just a lazy plumber scaring you.
Thanks Joe, will do.
The second opinion plumber has had to reschedule until tomorrow so results to come.
We also talked to a plumber and a builder who are each friends of ours here and in Brissy who have said for $20,000 they would fly up there and do the job themselves. In other words that is ridiculous.
So at least it is looking a little more positive than first thought. Fingers crossed!
Funny you mentioned that! i was going to say i can do the job for 10K and i'll fly up from Melbourne!
Hi Peachy,
Sorry to hear of your dilemma. I also have an investment property in Mackay so would love to know the name of the plumber not to use.
I live in a mining town in a 40 year old house owned by Rio. Our pipework sprung a leak, luckily not under the house but under the patio slab. They brought in the sonar device but could only manage to pinpoint within 50 cm or so of the leak. They then had to dig up the concrete until they found it. Funny thing was our dog kept sniffing at a point on the concrete and we joked that the dog knew where the leak was. The plumbers ignored the dog and kept digging up concrete, digging up probably 50 cm x 50 cm in the end, only to find the dog was spot on with detecting the leak! Our house was not the only one to have a similar problem. Good luck. I look forward to hopefully a better outcome with the second plumber. Cheers, Janice
Hi Janice,
Is your dog available to hire out in Mackay ?
Haha yes Janice what is your dog's hourly rate!?
Who did you use for the sonar?
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