ARE YOU SEEING WHAT I’M SEEING? A disappearing middle class.

I love the positive vibes surrounding North American business folk, great fun to be around, very inspiring…just takes a bit of DD to separate reality from wishful thinking when dealing with them.

No doubt, Kyler, wasn't referring to you, or even to the North American RE market, just to the gung-ho "we're number one, no one holds a candle to us" approach that some supah dupah partriotic North Americans seem to possess in spades.

Last i checked we are still number 1…

I think we will be ok…  You don't have to be number one all the time.  It's no doubt our people need a realty check. 

Who're these "bad men" in this play, freck? Those leaders didn't come from outer space, we're the ones putting them in place time after time.

I'm with Freckle, big business is who puts these puppets up there.

I honestly don't get you, freckle and kyler. Who are these "big business" illuminati and "men in black" you're referring to here exactly? When we stop teaching our children that manipulation, individual wealth, exploitation and buck chasing are the cornerstones of existence is when we'll stop seeing the same replicas of parties and candidates "magically appear" before us time after time.

You want a different president? Make one. Educate your children accordingly. There's no one enforcing a "big business" education system on the poor defenseless working battlers world…it's us putting these big business values up on pedestals for our children and children's children to see generation after generation, and cooking up the next generation of lobbyists to complain about next decade. What are you whining about exactly? Conspiracy theory stuff, seriously…

end rant.

we're of the same view, freckle, its just that I don't think there's a climax coming or any particular boys club in control, its us getting what we deserve, centuries of manipulation and abuse and pretense as a doctrine, and it hasn't changed or climaxed at all (at least, not more than usual), just shifted, we're all living in it (unless you're living in an Eco village raising your kids via equal rights commune decisions and living off the land…wild guess, but you're probably more the fortified bunker in the mountain type).

well gee whiz, that's real nice of ya, but unfortunately some of the very basics of the "big business" you're teaching in schools around the world today is based on exploitation, so there's hardly any "big business" about without it. Its a grand idea to think that Gina or Murdoch are unique but hey, who's buying the media hype now? The reason these guys are singled out has nothing to do with the system trying to correct itself, and everything to do with who or what happens to be on top at any given moment. the fact that there's a top to rise to, a competition, a popularity meter, politics as a profession instead of expert guidance and communal decision, is more the problem in my view – but this isn't a discussion that you or I will resolve here today, so I suggest we drop it.

no, I simply don't think there's a big brother. It's just us, looking down at ourselves, and having only ourselves to blame. When our values change, so will our future and present, through propagating those values until the system brings forth the best according to the new value set, as opposed to the best of the old krap we still celebrate and teach today. And if you think Gina and her likes, Murdoch, or the few unfortunate sods you caught trying to cheat ya are it, you're the naive party in this discussion. 

Hi Guy's,

The collapse Freckle depicts may not actually be man made event !

Our existence here is largely due to the big yellow ball in the sky, with it's heat and light enabling plants to create oxygen etc.

The sun's liquid / gas mass rotates, with the equator spinning faster than the poles, which creates a continual magnetic flux cycle that results in release of solar flares when it all get too messy.

The large flares have been known to have a big impact on the life of our wee planet, with historical dates aligning from previous known large flares, the collapse of earlier civilisations and the Mayan long count calendar.

The collection of life pods, bunkers and ammunition by peoples and governments is more of a preparation that if the big one comes at the end of the year that they have made some sort of preparation to try and survive. 

Personally, if it does happen I would rather Mrs Dubs and I were not around to endure it !

I do hope things carry on in it's present status quo but just to be sure, Mrs Dubs and are about to embark on a 5 week holiday to the US to make the most of it all, just in case.

I am sure life will carry on as normal in 2013, but it's a good excuse for a holiday anyway !