Hi, I could write an essay, but try to make it very short – does anybody know what the steps are to get occupants removed that are not on the rental contract? In other words, tenants are wanted, but not the occupants one of the tenants lets stay (since months now), they transfer the house into a nightclub (smoke everywhere, massively disturbing the other tenants, rendering their part of the house "half-livable"). It's tricky, because the tenants are on 1 rental contract and 1 of them lets the unwanted people stay, the others don't agree. Thanks everybody, why do we have to deal with this stuff, wouldn't it be nice to have only nice people in this world
Any help is appreciated, thanks.Hi,
How many tenants do you have? I'd put them all on separate rental agreement if they are unrelated parties means more paper, but if there is a drama you (and they) know where you stand.
If you have to take anything to court later such as damage, unpaid rent, you may have issues if they are not named on the lease. Also this negates the problem of other people in the house, legally at least, because you can point to the leases and say, not on the lease, get out.
Bit more info would probably help such as if you are managing yourself, have you given them any written notices etc etc.
D
DWolfe | www.homestagers.com.au
http://www.homestagers.com.au
Email MeNot the first person who gets one person to apply for the lease .. and then finds .. someone else occupying the property.
If it happens .. and it happens more often than I would like to see, then you have NO contractual obligations to both the existing tenancy (breach of agreement) or the existing non authorised tenancy. Subletting often happens when the tenant who WANTS the place has a bad history or record so he gets a friend to let the place for him.
They pay their bills regularly and act like good tenants? Good. Opt for a negotiation of a representative tenancy agreement and a fixed lease period of 6mths plus. Your paying the loan off to the bank depends on them paying up .. get that on paper.
A new agreement and a new lease. It makes them the responsible tenancy they should be.
Despite the ease of dumping a tenant, unless its an absolute BOOM market .. you risk the wait of time in between a new tenant. Who pays for that?
You dont have to deal with poor non contractual tenancies. If they are causing trouble and they are not registered on the lease .. issue a notice to vacate as soon as possible. Bad unregistered tenants can exceed your expectations as to what troubles they can get up to.
If you know you will be possibly left out of pocket by issuing a vacancy notice .. then just prepare for it in advance and issue it when you are ready and able to. Make sure you have enough spare to cater for a 2-3 month vacancy. It means you wont be hard pressed when it comes to servicing the loan.
Thanks for the answers so far. Now xdrew you wrote:
xdrew wrote:If it happens .. and it happens more often than I would like to see, then you have NO contractual obligations to both the existing tenancy (breach of agreement) or the existing non authorised tenancy. Subletting often happens when the tenant who WANTS the place has a bad history or record so he gets a friend to let the place for him.Can you point me to the legislation behind this? Also, really, the tenants themselves are great, just the unwanted occupants are not (daughter + boyfriend of one tenant
) – I really would just see the unwanted "go", how exactly would the process look like? (never had this before, sorry) Could the tenant that doesn't agree to them staying there (again, same rental contract unfortunately or fortunately, depends on your answers ) take any action? They are the ones who asked for help, and I would love not to have this as "owner involved" situation, but rather have the tenants do this for obvious reasons, less head-ache. So would it be a breach of contract between the tenants as well (my gut says yes) and the one tenant who doesn't agree with the occupants could get them evicted for staying in "their rental", even though it's only 1 part of the renting party? I know this is complicated, but really, the faster this is over, the sooner my head-ache is gone hahaThanks everybody!
Either you control who occupies your property with a process of
tenancy application / decline or accept /
lease /
or someone else will control who occupies it.
There is only trouble ahead for you by the sound of it.
It's bad policy to have somene in your property who is not legally responsible for damage, and that person is the illegal occupant.
My suggestion is to write to the tenant, outline the breach, demand the illegals vacate immediately otherwise you will evict the lessee.
Cheers
thecrest
thecrest | Tony Neale - Statewide Motel Brokers
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have you told them that you disagree with they were doing? if so take into action write a letter that says everything that they have violated including the nice one., making a firm policy inside the house that affect everyone will make everyone conscious of the others action because they to will be affected, if it is not precisely said on the contract, revise it and make it an individually applicable rather than the whole.
This is where your art of negotiation comes into play. (remember me saying in previous posts it was important?)
First .. there is no reason for the owner to stick his head in at any time in the sequence. If you try to either throw your weight around .. talk tough or threaten .. well first of all thats bad negotiation .. second .. they have wonderful places called tenancy tribunals they can take you to sort you and your finances out.
The first thing to do is write a polite letter to all the tenancies from the property manager (i'm assuming in this case that there is more than one payee for the rent .. from your letter above). Stating quite simply that there has been some noted issues with the tenancies and complaints lodged with the property manager (no names no descriptions .. keep it bland). State that the problems of concern need to be dealt with or the tenants will be in breach of their rental agreement. Give them a reasonable timeframe in which to work this out .. six weeks. Issue a warning notice at the same time, if you issue a warning notice its a sign that you are serious and prepared to back it up. With an issued warning notice they have already been given notice and this usually scares the bejesus out of them and they smart up quickly.
Note : This is why you have a property manager as an inbetween and not yourself. The property manager knows all the legalese and deals with the right paperwork at the right time. Its not about just collecting the rents .. its about knowing what to do when the rental goes wrong.
And as a final note .. proper positive negotiation is all about a win-win deal. If it comes down to it .. a little moving money makes things easier. Last resort but it does work. Think creatively .. and think in such a way that everyone in the deal wins.
Thats negotiation for you. And thats why I keep saying its one of the skills you study to understand. It will save your ass.
lovinglifetothefullest wrote:Hi, I could write an essay, but try to make it very short – does anybody know what the steps are to get occupants removed that are not on the rental contract? In other words, tenants are wanted, but not the occupants one of the tenants lets stay (since months now), they transfer the house into a nightclub (smoke everywhere, massively disturbing the other tenants, rendering their part of the house "half-livable"). It's tricky, because the tenants are on 1 rental contract and 1 of them lets the unwanted people stay, the others don't agree. Thanks everybody, why do we have to deal with this stuff, wouldn't it be nice to have only nice people in this world Any help is appreciated, thanks.Hi All.
I agree with Andrew about negotiation as a skill to learn and use and improve.
But reading the initial post I felt the poster was wanting to remove these illegal occupants.
In my opinion, unless matters change it's not a safe scenario for the property because :
(a) they're not on the lease, hence legally not recognised as tenants, so
(b) they're not responsible for damage or rent under the Residential Tenancies Act in NSW
(c) they have not completed a tenancy application to check on their ID, rental history or background
(d) their occupation has not been approved by PM or property owner, hence it's a sublet by the tenant if they're paying rent
to the tenant which is usually a major breach of the lease in most pre-printed NSW lease forms
(e) those with no regard for tenancy laws will likely have no regard for your property
(f) one of the legal tenants wants them out as well, so from the 2 legal tenants you'd expect support from one and compliance from the other.
I believe in negotiation, but first you have to regain control as a landlord and all occupants in the property need to understand the real situation first.
As a PM, I never negotiated with squatters or illegal occupants on principal because I couldn't legally condone illegal occupation without being negligent and liable, so I insisted they vacate and make an application, and in considering that application, I considered their recent actions as well as their merits.
Maybe that's just my style of P Management, call it unfriendly if you like, but a PM cannot afford the legal liability of playing soft hearted social worker with illegals.
What a property owner does with their own property under self-management is their own decision.
Cheers
thecrest
thecrest | Tony Neale - Statewide Motel Brokers
http://www.statewidemotelbrokers.com.au
Email Me | Phone Meselling motels in NSW
In answering thecrest,
To be honest .. I dont know where this property is precisely. As a general rule .. its three times easier for the landlord to approach a half-difficult tenancy with kid gloves, than the whole process of eviction .. loss of rent and even the possibility of damage due to ingratiated non-paying tenancies.
I've got one thing on hand that you may not have .. hundreds of tenancies as experience. As such i've done the mistakes .. and learnt from them. I've dealt with the couch in the living room with MUSHROOMS growing out of it .. the beautiful old apple tree in the backyard that was used to throw apples at the house and break every single window when the tenancy expired. The tenants who were angry enough to call a house demolition party, which .. by no mean feat .. they accidentally invited me to. I was not impressed. The tenants who decide in their new place they cant have any pets .. so they leave the pets behind .. in the cupboard .. for five weeks. Not a pretty sight to come across. The nylon carpet that just keeps on accumulating ironing marks as the tenancy goes on. The two bedroom unit that on inspection has more cockroaches than indians .. and there are FOUR sleeping bags in each bedroom in a 2br unit ! Subletting anyone?
I agree .. you dont deal with BS in any format with tenancies. But as explained in the initial outlay .. she's got a set of unwanteds in the mix .. not a difficult tenant. That situation can be remedied.
You must weigh up always the value of the existing tenancy versus the ability to get another one. In some tough market conditions such as where there are large amounts of vacancies in the area, you really cant afford to become another vacant rental .. in those conditions a tenancy is literally priceless. It not only works for you .. but even the surrounding properties. This doesnt mean just settle for ANY tenancy. It does however mean that if the existing tenancy is valid barring extenuating circumstances (in this case the ugly mugs) you try to keep it if possible.
The correct weight of a tenancy should be that a good tenancy is gold bars in your bank account. A bad tenancy will in one way or another eventually cost you, whether its money or respect or property longer term value.
Ooooh nice scrabpbook Xdrew, sounds like mine.
You have a good handle on it all.
Hope there's a good outcome for you the post originator " lovinglife to the…"
good luck.Good post too by the way.
Cheers
thecrest
thecrest | Tony Neale - Statewide Motel Brokers
http://www.statewidemotelbrokers.com.au
Email Me | Phone Meselling motels in NSW
Approved occupant, about to be forcefully removed :
Any help is appreciated, thanks.
) – I really would just see the unwanted "go", how exactly would the process look like? (never had this before, sorry) Could the tenant that doesn't agree to them staying there (again, same rental contract unfortunately or fortunately, depends on your answers 
good luck.
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