All Topics / Help Needed! / 6 year rule and CGT – vacant property enough?

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  • Profile photo of learning curve2learning curve2
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    @learning-curve2
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 36

    Hi all

    I have searched on here and on the web regarding the 6 year rule and CGT. I found some information that states that I don’t have to move back into the property at all, as leaving it vacant is enough for me to still claim it as my PPOR while I live and work interstate….is that correct?
    I own another investment property, but housesit in my day to day life, so this first property I can still claim as my PPOR.

    In a nutshell, this is my situation…I have had tenants in the property since late January 2007. I am planning on having it vacant by early January 2013, therefore within the 6 years. I had the idea of still working in Sydney for a few months into the new year and leaving the property vacant. This may sound like I will be losing money, but I earn a good wage in Sydney and the house will be paid off by then, so won’t be costing any weekly mortgage payments.

    I also read that a good amount of time is 3mths (with my name on the electricity bill) for it to be untenanted to be able to be exempt from the CGT when i sell it…does this sound right?
    any advice would be great

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    There is no 3 month time limit. You could leave it untenanted indefinitely and still claim the CGT exemption.

    see s 118-145 subsection 3
    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/itaa1997240/s118.145.html

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of learning curve2learning curve2
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    @learning-curve2
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    thanks terry
    so you are saying it could even be less than 3mths? i was just going on what would be seen as being feasible in the eyes of the tax office. less is always better!

    thanks!

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Please explain?

    What exactly could be less than 3 months/?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of learning curve2learning curve2
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    @learning-curve2
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    To leave it untenanted for less than the 3mths.

    For example, tenants out by early January, leave it vacant for say a month and then start to re-advertise for new tenants, so all up it is left vacant for say 6 weeks (saying that it would take 2 weeks to find new tenants). Would that be seen as being a sufficient amount of time to the ATO?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Sufficient for what?

    See the link above for s118-145 . It can be left untenanted forever and still be CGT exempt (under certain circumstances).

    separately, If you are talking about income tax then if it is vacant and you are not advertising then you generally could not claim any interest during this period.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of learning curve2learning curve2
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    @learning-curve2
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    Thanks Terry
    I am just concerned about being eligible for the CGT exemption when I come to sell it later and was just enquiring about the minimum length of time it could be left untenanted. The interest doesn't apply as the house will be paid off by then….no more mortgage!!!

    Profile photo of Dan42Dan42
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    @dan42
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    learning curve2 wrote:
    To leave it untenanted for less than the 3mths.

    For example, tenants out by early January, leave it vacant for say a month and then start to re-advertise for new tenants, so all up it is left vacant for say 6 weeks (saying that it would take 2 weeks to find new tenants). Would that be seen as being a sufficient amount of time to the ATO?

    I think we are talking about two separate things here.

    Once the property earns income, the clock starts on the six years. To re-activate as your main residence, and be exempt from CGT, you must move back in within the six year timeframe.

    If the property is NEVER rented, you can leave it empty indefinitely and it can still be your main residence.

    In your situation, you would need to move back in within six years for it to be CGT free.

    Profile photo of learning curve2learning curve2
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    @learning-curve2
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    Hi Dan
    Do you mean that I wouldn't be eligible if I just left it vacant for 2 mths or so after the tenants move out in early January (ie not earn any income on it) and then get new tenants or move in myself after that time?

    I read that leaving it vacant would be sufficient enough. It is still a little unclear to me

    Thanks

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    LC

    You are still confusing different issues I think.

    1. CGT.
    A main residence can be left vacant indefinitely and be free of CGT.

    2. Income Tax
    A residence can be left vacant for any amount of time, but you could not claim any costs unless it is available for rent and you are actively looking for a tenant.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of learning curve2learning curve2
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    @learning-curve2
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    Thanks Terry

    I was just after clarification on the CGT aspect.

    Great news to hear that I can leave the property vacant and not have to move back in myself after the current tenants leave and still bequalify for the exemption when I eventually sell it.

    Thanks again for the advice

    Profile photo of Dan42Dan42
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    @dan42
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    learning curve2 wrote:
    Thanks Terry

    I was just after clarification on the CGT aspect.

    Great news to hear that I can leave the property vacant and not have to move back in myself after the current tenants leave and still bequalify for the exemption when I eventually sell it.

    Thanks again for the advice

    Sorry to burst the bubble but that's not right.

    You can only leave it indefintely and still call it your PPOR, as long as it never earnt income.If it was rented out, you must move back in within six years for the property to remain CGT free.

    You will need to move back in after the tenants move out, to keep the property CGT free.

    Profile photo of learning curve2learning curve2
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    @learning-curve2
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    oh well. it was worth a shot. i have read all different stories, so the next plan is….

    say i move back in say 6mths after the 6 years are up. does that mean i still only have to pay CGT on the increase in value over that 6mths? is it then wise to get a valuation done on the property just before the 6 years are up and then another when i move back in?

    Profile photo of learning curve2learning curve2
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    @learning-curve2
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    hi
    me again and sorry to be so annoying but these are the sites i saw the vacant property info on (under Full Exemptions)

    http://www.quinns.com.au/blog/2010/08/11/how-to-avoid-capital-gains-tax-while-renting-out-your-house/
    http://finance.ninemsn.com.au/pfproperty/investing/8123489/rent-out-your-house-and-avoid-capital-gains-tax

    They say….

    'This process can generally be repeated for any amount of time and the property will remain exempt from CGT. The same can also be said if you rent the property out for six years, then leave it vacant from there on in.
    '

    and….

    'If you rent your house out for six years then leave it vacant thereafter, it remains CGT exempt'

    = still confused!

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I am confused by your confusion.

    Basically you could rent your main residence out for 6 years and avoid GST
    or you can leave it empty until your death (and not rent it) and it could still be free of GST.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of sniffersniffer
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    @sniffer
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    i think what is being asked is    how can i reset the 6 year clock??  

    Profile photo of learning curve2learning curve2
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    @learning-curve2
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    [/quote]
    Sorry to burst the bubble but that's not right.

    You can only leave it indefintely and still call it your PPOR, as long as it never earnt income.If it was rented out, you must move back in within six years for the property to remain CGT free.

    You will need to move back in after the tenants move out, to keep the property CGT free.
    [/quote]

    hi all
    just a bit confused as i don't want to move in straight away after the tenants leave. i want to leave it vacant for approx 2 mths than move in. Dan's reply above states that if i do this i won't be eligible for the exemption as it once earned an income.

    Profile photo of blackhotelblackhotel
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    @blackhotel
    Join Date: 2010
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    We just did this, we kicked out the tenants (did'nt renew the lease).

    On the advice of our accountant upon the 6 years of owning a property in Melb, my partner (was her PPOR when purchased) moved back in for 4 weeks. But she did not actually physically move back in. This is VERY important. YOU MUST BE ABLE TO PROVE THAT YOU MOVED IN.

    To do this we put the elect & gas on, changed all her Id's and mail to the Melb address, had her friend go there everyday and run the heater so the elect bill will show fluctuations and usage. Her mother would pick up the mail every week. She even went as far as flying down to Melb (we live in QLD) when the tenants moved out to prove she moved to Melb.

    After 4 weeks, we advertised the property for lease and it took 2 weeks to rent. So in total she moved back in for a total of  6 weeks. The 6 years will commence again.

    We lost 6 weeks rent, however the CGT would've been heaps more of a loss.

    I think you are trying to ask if you could just leave it vacant so the 6 year rule will start again. We were told YOU MUST PROVE THAT YOU MOVED BACK IN and that there was no specific rule as to how long you had to live there for the 6 years to start again. .

    Profile photo of learning curve2learning curve2
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    @learning-curve2
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    hi blackhotel

    this is getting closer to want i need to understand. i intend to move back in for a 3 to 6mth period or so (to restart the 6 years)…just not intending to do it straight away when the tenants leave in January. Will do it say, 2 mths after that. So is leaving it vacanct enough (as per the website info) or is Dan right when saying….

    'You can only leave it indefintely and still call it your PPOR, as long as it never earnt income.If it was rented out, you must move back in within six years for the property to remain CGT free.

    You will need to move back in after the tenants move out, to keep the property CGT free.'

    another point, i understand having all my ID and bills to that address but i will still be working in sydney for that time….won't that come up as being weird? did your partner still work in QLD in this time period?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You must actually move in to reset the clock and you may need good evidence to prove this if challenged or audited. There is no minimum time period in the legislation either.

    If you rent it to tenants and they move out and you wait 2 months then move in it would only be your main residence from that 2 month period. This is unless you had lived their prior to the tenants moving out. If was your main residence and the tenants had lived there for exactly 6 years and then you waited 2 months to move in then there may be issues as the property had earned income. The legislation isn't clear on this, but ATO publications suggest that the first 6 years would be CGT free but the next 2 wouldn't.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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