ITIN is fine for borrowing, pre or post GFC. Of course it takes time to get a credit rating – use VF to get financed into a property, much easier dealing with people than banks.
I have never had (nor want) residency and have never lived in the US. I have a good FICO but would probably struggle to get resi loans. The only reason I would consider residency is to get 3% down resi financing – that would let me take my FICO out for a spin to really see what it could do….
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quickchick wrote:Thanks for the clarification of notary at point of law, lawsjs. Complex! True, you don't need a #SSN to open a US bank account. But post what we Aussies called the GFC, I don't know if any Aussie investor has borrowed from a US bank without a #SSN. So as a pre-GFC known borrower, you personally are still able to borrow in US (I presume) without current residency or #SSN. I doubt if anyone has been able to start borrowing here post GFC as a new client, and a foreign non-resident without #SSN(?) But would be interested to hear if that has been someone's experience? Ruth Propertyinvestingusa.com Phoenix AZRuth,
Both myself personally and many of my clients have been able to borrow funds from a bank in the USA over the past 6 months….without a SSN. All new borrowers and all foreign nationals.
Interesting, sjs….
It is our current experience that, having a 16 month banking history including their ‘secured’ credit cards, even ‘our’ bank will not lend to us on our ITIN. We can’t even apply for a real credit card without a #SSN, which is not the initial info we were given.
We can’t borrow to buy a vehicle (purpose: to borrow to build FICO), even putting 50% down.In fact, we have no FICO score on 2/3 of the credit agencies, because we have no #SSN. So we can’t borrow because we have no FICO because we have no #SSN.
Despite 2 IRS returns in USA, etc.Thankfully for us, our #SSN are only days away in the mail.
Anyone on the forum who has actually borrowed from a us bank without a #SSN recently?
I’m sure this will be a hot topic for many!Ruth
propertyinvestingusa.com
Phoenix AZquickchick wrote:Anyone on the forum who has actually borrowed from a us bank without a #SSN recently? I'm sure this will be a hot topic for many! Ruth propertyinvestingusa.com Phoenix AZI have a SSN and I had an excellent credit history until 2006, when I left the US. When I opened my first bank account as an US investor last year, I asked the Account Manager to take a look at my credit history, as well. Surprise: zero, zilch, Nada, Sahara everywhere. I've been told that if I don't use my SSN for 5 years all the credit history is erased. OK- I said, I'll apply for a Credit Card as long as I have a SSN. Of course, my application was denied. I asked them about the possibility of borrowing some funds from them, based on how much money I deposited in their bank and based on the income I'll have from my properties. I've been told that I'll need at least 1 year business history and they'll have to check out my INTERNATIONAL credit history (respectively the Canadian one) – pretty polite refusal.
Another story: I tried to get some money (in the US, of course) to buy some properties in Vegas. Very nice and knowledgeable Realtor, very nice financial adviser… I've been told that, as a foreign national, if I want a mortgage, I have to put down at least 35% out of the total cost of the property and the Federal law doesn't allow them to give me LESS (!) than 70K, representing the other 65%. So, overall, if I want to purchase a property with mortgage on it, that has to be valued at least at 100K. So, were will be my cash-flow…? They said that having a SSN doesn't count.
Any inputs on the same topic guys?mmm ok Im getting confused now Ill read all this over again when my son is asleep, and perhaps getting a consultation with a Visa lawyer is the way to go.. Im sure they will have a point a.b.c steps for me to follow or at least look into..
lawsjs wrote:Freckle: That makes Kyler the one in the dress – No wonder he gets picked on by tenants:)
BTW there is a very interesting Bloomberg article today suggesting housing has bottomed in th US – I can’t get the link right now, but it kind of backed up what Jay, Alex, Cheeves, Kyler the dress wearer and Emma have been saying.Debra, it’s not all scary. The nice parts are VERY nice, the scary parts are VERY scary. As I have said before, If you buy on 5th Ave, you will never have a tenant problem. I think being cautiously optimistic is how best to describe it, If anyone other than Kyler offers to sell you anything in a ‘Kyler area’ and they aren’t Kyler – run a mile:)
Mihovi: Just the impartial facts….
This one? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-25/housing-declared-bottoming-in-u-s-.html and then there is also http://www.forbes.com/sites/morganbrennan/2012/05/09/home-prices-stabilizing-signifying-a-housing-market-bottom/
Notary in the US is someone who takes a test no harder than getting a drivers license.. And has a basic background check…
Most notarys have no clue as to what the document they are notarizing does or is.
Fraud is rampant in the US with forged Notaries… but we do not want to give the spruikers anymore ideas.. they already caught on to the LLC with no assets one.
JLH
debralawson wrote:wow you guys surely are scaring me off this buy into the US idea, thats ok I think a business may be the way to go. We run 2 here and have a few ideas for a retail outlet we want to set up, I think we look at setting that up there perhaps? Any thoughts on setting up a business there, or is that a whole new thread..Debra,
I think the point is that one must balance return to risk…. High return High risk neighborhoods are for those that work it everyday.
by and large the US investor learned this lesson in the last go round with these houses… thousands of LA and NY and other area investors poored into Detroit for all the same reasons I see on this site…." buy a home for the price of a car" 20% returns sit in your easy chair and collect your money… ONly to have the expeirinces that are described above by Mohavi, of having a Detroit totally stripped… The difference between him and you is he is first generation wholesaler who can have this happen then as he admits sell to some other out of area investor and make 8k profit…. Most buyers from turn key guys are paying top of the market. an trashed and stripped house cannot be recovered financially you will lose those dollars…
there are hundreds of thousands of homes and places to invest in the US were it is much safer and your home will have a less than 5% chance of getting stripped or trashed as compared to a 70 to 100% chance in any of the low end neighborhoods in any of the big mid western cities…
Alex,,, Kyler,,, ME,,,and any of the others who have dealt in these neighborhoods and or with these tenants have had the same thing happen to us personally,,, We are just willing to share the stories,,, How is a property selling company from OZ going to make sales if they are telling the ugly truth.. they don'e they just tell you all the great things and greed takes over greed in teh way of net or gross rental returns.
over 50% of all small business that open in the US fail by year 2 thats a fact… competition is stiff and ferrce….especially in the food business… hard to compete with the chinese resturant who hires no employees its all family and barely pays income tax's that sort of thing.
If you target your returns on rentals in the US in a conversvative manner and realistic returns 8 to 10% you will find decent properties,, that should work for you over time… It just seems like a sport here where one person post ( hey I am getting 12.9% and another says 14.9%) etc etc…. US investors rarely look at return first.. Its a componant but its CAPITAL preservation and future value that drives the US investor… And to that end by and large they US investor has left the HOOD… The low end cheapy rentals as described by Kyler and others and certainly Detroit, Fort Wayne, Rochester, bad parts of Memphis etc etc.
I have one turn key guy I do business with in LA that was just up at my Portland office its taken him 3 years to pay back all his investors he put into the Frayser area of Memphis… He now only buys homes that at wholesale cost 50 to 60k in memphis and then reno and profit on top they come out close to 100k.. rents for 900… that kind of thing.. but you get the rent and you do not get stripped houses by and large still have to cage the condenser units virtually anywhere now in America…..So the formula is:
Rate of return net or gross is directly related to Risk of Capital preservation forget cash flow… Cash flow is a bonus in these bottom end markets…..
One point that you can get independant verification of the problem we all face is Insurance…… Most insurance policies drop coverage if the house has been vacant more than 30 days…. If you want complete coverage on a vacant house just ask your agent to quote you and you will see the big difference in premiums and alot of them will not go more than 60 days regardless…
those are the guys that know the risks from the ground up…As our portfolio grows past 300 units we will start to self insure… We will only buy liablity insurance…. We would have to have a home burn down about every 30 days to make sense of keeping fire insurance…Just fyi.
JLH
It's true, not many Americans know what an ITIN is, but in many cases we have been able to use our ITIN and that has worked.
But not in borrowing from any bank.Mihovi, thanks for sharing. You seem to have hit about the same wall, apparently because you don't live in USA, even though you have had a credit history here in the past. But they are not saying it is due to no #SSN. Is it that the banks are very cautious after the GFC? I think so.
Was the Vegas loan attempt thru a bank, or hard money loan? (If you don't mind me asking.)Jay, US notaries obviously have little or no training!
Funnily enough, the 2 different Aussie notaries we used in Australia, were both entirely unfamiliar with US house sales paperwork. They did peruse the paperwork, ask us quite a few questions, and signed the documents according to our US realtor's sticky note instructions on the papers, and our prompting! Aussie law background is no help for signing o'seas papers.Debra, an immigration lawyer can help advise you which visa suits your business plan, but of course can't tell you what your business plan should be. May be helpful for you, to clarify what way to go. PM me if you would like a recommendation to our immigration attorney.
Ruth
propertyinvestingusa.com
Phoenix. AZ
Training not required for US notary,,, just read the book on what notary jurats to use for different documents get your stamp and book and your down the road.
CA. requires finger prints on any deed that trasnfers title…. So much fruad was taking place the title insurers got this Bill passed 15 or so years ago.
Its just alarming what one can do with a notary stamp….. Do not want to give any spruikers any big ideas..
jayhinrichs wrote:Training not required for US notary,,, just read the book on what notary jurats to use for different documents get your stamp and book and your down the road.CA. requires finger prints on any deed that trasnfers title…. So much fruad was taking place the title insurers got this Bill passed 15 or so years ago.
Its just alarming what one can do with a notary stamp….. Do not want to give any spruikers any big ideas..
Jay the lady I fired in my office for basically stealing she was meeting new tenants ( while collecting money from them ) It is amazing how some people are. She is a notary and was able to get that done in SC( amazing). Just a few forms, and few reference letters and bam.
LOL and they wonder why we have all these problems.
Alex SC wrote:jayhinrichs wrote:Training not required for US notary,,, just read the book on what notary jurats to use for different documents get your stamp and book and your down the road.CA. requires finger prints on any deed that trasnfers title…. So much fruad was taking place the title insurers got this Bill passed 15 or so years ago.
Its just alarming what one can do with a notary stamp….. Do not want to give any spruikers any big ideas..
Jay the lady I fired in my office for basically stealing she was meeting new tenants ( while collecting money from them ) It is amazing how some people are. She is a notary and was able to get that done in SC( amazing). Just a few forms, and few reference letters and bam.
LOL and they wonder why we have all these problems.
Just think if your writing title insurance in Wayne county MI… that county is so behind it can take 3 to 6 months for deeds to show up on record. The title co. has to write gap insurance… I would never write title insurance there.
Before we could start lending in Detroit I had to fly my banker out from Portland, and sit down with the Title insurance company and go through the transactions.. it was so foriegn to how we do business here on the West Coast.
So add that and a stolen notary stamp and you have rampant fruad…
For our Aussie friends.
All Deeds that convey title from one entity or person must be notarized before they can be recorded… Same with Debt instruments that are recorded… Promissory notes as a rule are not recorded and do not need notarization… So the county recorders rely on the notary seal from a notary public to record… IE anyone can record anything… Then is becomes a matter of record.. that can only be changed by willing parties releasing their interest ( quit claim deed) or other document to reconvey the debt instrument they differ by state.
Since the Notes do not need to be notarized and recorded this is how we ended up in our big Mortgage mess… Wall st. decided to alonge these instruments and slice and dice pieces of the notes to different investors…( sometimes they call that fractionalizing, although this is usually displayed on the Benefical interest on the debt instrument and is of record.
So now you have all these Notes floating around in the financial institutions and the GFC hits…. Now enitities want to foreclose but they can’t figure out who actually has the original Note and how many people have bought an interest in it.
This led to robo signing… Then Robo signing got its hand slapped… Now in some states if you do not have the original note you can’t foreclose using the trustee system you must use Judical system…which takes much longer and much more costly.
This is once reason the Freckle may be right about inventories… As the banks have had to retool and redo foreclosures there became a big back log… So we will see if now that the rules on foreclosing are clearer.. if they will speed up the process and more inventory will come on the market thereby dragging it down….
Unlikely in most markets for the opening bids on the foreclosures to get any lower.. Banks are pretty attuned in each area to the bottom number. IE a number that will result in a 3rd party sale at foreclosure…
Add into the mix the prevalent use of LLC’s and thats a whole nother kettle of fish.
JH
Other than my little Tee t Tee on subject too equity skimming scheme’s I think the modirators have treated me fairly.
Not that I think they were not right taking down my comments on that scheme….
The socio demographic realities as they relate to different parts of the US and owning rental properties are really really critical to the financial health of the investor…
And when an investor just has no clue as to these realities until its too late,, I thinks its germane to include this in the conversations so one knows….
One needs to be aware of the dangers of rough and bad neighborhoods be they in LA, Detroit,, SF Bay Area, Washington DC, NY,
MIami,, any big city metro plex…A person especially a foreigner needs to be on their toes.. And then to invest in the toughest neighborhoods because of some sales pitch and because its cheap one needs to be doubly careful and leave those to the professional full time investor.. at least in my mind.
I know it happened to me once on a trip to Europe.
I get of the plane at Paris,,, 11 hour flight from Seattle, jet lagged,, and when I step to the taxi line I just hoped in the first van I saw.. Not thinking…. after about 5 mintues I am thinking hey were is the meter… And why is this guy taking out a GPS to find one of the finest hotels in Paris…. And driving like a bat out of hell…130 140klicks…. I kept a keen eye on the GPS and could tell we were headed in the right direction… ( ya know us newer pilots that fly glass thats all we use anymore) we get to the hotel and I just out and tell my wife to head in .. I tell the guy I have no Euros and go inside.. to the concierge…. They tell me this is no cabby,,, I had already figured that out and that I am lucky I did not get robbed…. So I refused to pay cabby comes in and here we are in this top end hotel arguing…. At the end of the day concierge said if the cops come I will get in trouble because I should have know better than get in a fake cab its my fault.. We settled on half fare.. And from this day on I really check cabbies when I travel.
So same thing,,, Drive into Compton or Watts by accident at 10 pm and your not from their and the wrong socio demographic and you stand a good chance of getting car jacked at an intersection… Same with any big inner city in the US…. New Orleans is particular dangerous if you wonder 3 blocks out of the Quarter…One of my buddies who has lived in New Orleans all his life, has gotten robbed numerous times at gun point….
The very unfortunate case of the Aussie investor working on his Detroit property only to get shot…..etc etc.
I am sure crime happens in OZ but just not to the degree it happens in our ethnic neighborhoods,
Why can't you sell it to the investor if you are up front and they can still make good money. If everybody is up front it can be a successful business. I'm making money, my clients make money, i don't even let them buy any C class till i have lined them up with some A and B class properties. It's a cash machine, I wouldn't sell something to somebody i wouldn't buy myself.
kylermrice wrote:Why can't you sell it to the investor if you are up front and they can still make good money. If everybody is up front it can be a successful business. I'm making money, my clients make money, i don't even let them buy any C class till i have lined them up with some A and B class properties. It's a cash machine, I wouldn't sell something to somebody i wouldn't buy myself.Noce one, are you in property there? Sorry so many posts now IM getting confused..
Thanks guys for all comments its really good stuff to take on, I think perhaps a business could be the way to go, IM in the midst of setting up something different over here “store wise”… If it goes well in the frist year I may look at expanding here and perhaps then look at the US.. As said from the start I have always wanted to live in the USA so what ever my moves are in the next year or 2 IM going to try and make them with that in mind… In the meantime I should be coming back for a holiday next year… Fingers crossed.
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