Very interesting advice guys, unfortunately I didn't know you three years ago.
Jay
It gets back to why I chose Vegas in the first instance – sad but true….workers unite in Vegas (1.8 million toiling for the decadence of predominantly white and asian playground for 40 million adult visitors a year don't have much time to slack off so long as you stare hard at them in the first instance)….- again, so so so so so true on Section 8 in the lower enclaves….and Atlanta is just somewhere that I entered with all the trepidation of memories of the program from Alaska – not many blacks in Alaska (lol) but the worst of the concept used in America known as "white trailer trash" and not my now great memories in Vegas (pro landlord = eviction in 5 days).In Vegas, if I put a dishwasher on the street, it is gone within 5 hours – some hispanic crew will come around and have it for scrap metal…..heck, they rip copper wire FAR more out of the houses in Vegas than they do here…. (pointless exercise for the amount of copper)… BUT THEY HAVE TO WORK HARD TO RIP THAT STUFF OUT AND LIFT ALL THOSE APPLIANCES…. I mean SERIOUSLY. Any Saturday I can drive to local swap meet and buy it back, perfectly restored and ready to go again….
It used to SHOCK me here that in Atlanta all the appliances are here…. seriously shock me – and I used to leave them out (my workers ALWAYS get first pick for the metal)….but no, the appliances are here but the a/c's if anything are only marginally likely to be gone…?? It took me seriously about a month to figure out that it is just a lack of work ethic – it is too much hassle to take an appliance…..! Our thieves in Vegas are SO much harder working.
In the same socio economic demographic over here the tendency is that the cars are mercs, BMW's and the trousers start inching down around the thighs…the doof door music starts resonating… in Vegas, the Mexican fiesta starts with all the food being brought around – the little religious icons out in full display and the cars are all trucks and beaten up but by GOSH the kids look happy – and someone is ALWAYS trying o feed you…… mmmmmmm, yummmm…..
However Atlanta is a big city and it just gets back to being so so so so so careful where you buy. You can't avoid US tenants and no, your tenants at the levels we are talking about are not likely to be professional executives… again, get to know WHO they are….listingbook just ROCKS for demographics and community info. spot crime is fabulous etc etc…
Work. The concept of "WORK"… I just had the need for a handyman…(dude we love has kidney stones)… $15 an hour, must be licensed, bonded etc…78 applications in 24 hours for $15 an hour licensed and bonded…. SEVENTY EIGHT.. of those actually WANTING to work? 2 Home Inspectors from 2 of the wealthiest counties just desperate for work, a slew of master plumbers, electricians… you name it…….but it just goes to show that those who are unemployed and understand they need to do whatever it takes to get food on the table are few and far between. 10 of those 78 applicants TRULY wanted to work… 1 in 8 of those actually applying for a job WANTED to work?
<moderator: delete language>……. I HATE RAIN (separate note)…..the only good side of rain is I love the exercise I get from mowing lawns…… but they are almost as bad as swimming pools for maintenance if your tenants don't mow – especially if you were in an HOA with evil property manager.
aaaah, different worlds but still wouldn't swap it for the world…. to own your own home outright.. either country that is a HUGE statement right there – to own 2? to own 3? Positive cash flow AT ALL? Capital gain? Still worth it..
Interesting thing, close to a modern MIRACLE: Last fall, at the end of October, last day on a reno job, after cleaning the whole house, we've pushed outside all the materials and the tools. Dark, hungry, tired,nobody could figure out what was inside or outside the van carrying all of the crew's stuff. The very next day I passed by , together with my PM, for a last inspection before I had to leave him the keys. It was around 4:00PM (almost one full day after we left the property). When we've got there I couldn't believe my eyes: right in front of my property was our big commercial vacuum cleaner and a pretty voluminous tool box. Nobody took them ! I think this could be consider pretty much the 8-th wonder of the world…
Jay, I felt your anger 2-3 posts above. This is our world and we can't do much to change it – eventually accept or avoid it the way it is. In the summer, half of all the houses' porches in almost every block is filled with people laying on old recliners, sleeping on blankets, or drinking beer with the neighbors. All of them are on welfare! Next year is their spouses' turn or children, if they old enough. It's a rotation of Section 8 dependents. For some, the reward worth the risk, for some not – depends on each one's capability of acceptance and balance of things. I consider myself a very conservatory, low risk taking type, but I invest in that area based on what I know. You might think that I'm not a normal guy if I say this but I'm way too calculated in everything I do. I love to learn, learn and learn (I have 3 bachelors and last November I've got my Executive MBA – I'm bragging now), I like to research a lot – this is the way I was raised and educated. I'm not considering myself a wealthy man – my wealth is in my brain and in my soul, I like to not judge people but when I see what happens in Detroit and some other "dark" cities and hoods in the US, when I see the level of ignorance, doubled by the well-known arrogance and flashiness I feel sometimes that I want to explode – and I can't… I don't want to comment anymore.
Emma171, you are lucky. In Michigan (not only in Detroit) it was extremely, extremely hard for me to find somebody available to help me. All the guys on Craigslist – very busy, friends of some friends I have there – very busy, etc. The prices? Almost double of what you can find in Canada (in Vancouver, the survival rate is $19/hr – if you make less than $38k/year you are on Government's list for help). As an out of state investor, if the locals feel you that way, you're done – it's gonna' cost you double than usual.
Emma,
I stopped going to the Dump years ago…. with any thing but construction debris or yard type debris if its cloths furniture, hard goods whatever… I just move them in the driveway.. Put a Free sign on them <moderator: delete> and its all gone.. No cost no fuss no must they are happy to get the items I am happy to not have to go to the dump or stand and a garage sale all day trying to sell items for Looney or a Twooney…Just thought I would throw that in Eh:)
Agreed on Appliances in Atlanta,, We find the Stove's missing but not dishwasher,,, Airconditioning units are usually gone or gutted, Other than the more exclusive GATED communitys in Atlanta it will happen to any home no matter what you pay for it.
One very important fact that those investing should look at and US citizens do this intensely,, Is SCHOOLS… this is your best baramoter of where your going to have capital growth.. and best tenants and such.. Even accross the color barriers those that truly want a good education for their kids will gravitate and pay a premium for those properties. Take a school district that is inner city and 97% black or hispanic with low scores and your home values will just trundle along at what an investor is willing to pay….
this is how we buy properties in Atlanta by school district and counties…All this info is on line as well.
And of course there are areas where the parents that want the best education take their kids to private schools in the south called Acadamy's these were started after segregation was in acted.. Remember in the Deep south we are only 30 to 40 years removed from race riots and total segregation.
So this all leads to whats called White flight, blacks hispanics whatever move in and the whites move out to their enclave's.
Mahovi that is why I suggest anyone who wants to by inner city should only look at the properties on a Sat. 10 to 4 you will get the flavor really quickly…..
jayhinrichs wrote:Emma,that is why I suggest anyone who wants to by inner city should only look at the properties on a Sat. 10 to 4 you will get the flavor really quickly…..
Right Jay, you couldn't say it better…
Anyway, continuuing on from Andrew's last correspondence with me in February last year, I had to wait nearly a month, after sending several follow up emails, until I heard an update from Andrew about what was going on with my Detroit property. This was the property I owned and I paid Andrew Allan good money to renovate and find a reliable property manager for. Well as you can see below the property manager; Ronnie Williams, did not fit this category.
Please note the email below has not been modified at all.
March 15th
Hi Gavin,I have finally spoken to Jeremy who was the wholesaler in Detroit and
there seems to have been major criminal matters with the previous Property
Management and them now being investigated for Fraud. For the past 3-6
months they have been pocketing the rent from over 90 properties and now
have a number of owners looking at options. I am having someone look at
the property first thing Monday to confirm how we can quickly sell your
property. I understand you require the funds to settle on your St Kilda
property and I will make it a priority to get on top of this.I am looking into where the security deposit is located to recover as
well. I will also be keeping on the Youngstown property as I know once
that is done we could sell that for a profit. Lets touch base Friday my
time.Andrew
Well just to let you know, it took me quite a while before Andrew contacted me again. I had a deposit on a investment property in St. Kilda and needed to sell a US property quickly in order to get money for a deposit. As mentioned previously I made Andrew Allan aware of this before I purchased the two US investment properties and he said I would be able to turn over one in at least three months!
As you may be picking up by now Andrew despite his rhetoric, was all talk and no action. Consequently the rent money was never recovered and Andrew, did not find another property manager. He ended up passing the blame onto the wholesaler; Jeremy Burgess and later on told me to contact him as Andrew was unable to get in touch with Jeremy himself! As you will see in the next few weeks Andrew starts passing the blame onto others, even though I paid him money to find the wholesaler, property and property manager. I guess the email above is really just touching the iceberg compared to what happened later on.
Jeremy burgess despite what Mihovi says is not a reputable wholesaler as there are very few in Detroit in my humble opinon.
Detroit is just fraught with danger from all aspects.
We did 2 deals with jeremy and he showed himself to be of low character and not trust worthy..
In a flipping scenerio he will not give 2 hoots about your issues… And of course Andrew was just another long line of Aussie resellers that have no clue as to what they are doing they sit in OZ and trust THEIR GO TO TEAM all the while they have no clue as to whats going on.. how can they, they are 6k miles away.
we have a saying greedy people are pigs and pigs get slaughtered, this saying is so true in this low end rental yield business,,
As reputable business folks we hate to see something like this happen to Richard, but when you deal with non licesened people there is always the risk…
Wholesalers in the US are no better by and large,, <moderator: delete personal comment> but have no remorse if you lose all your money they are just selling a comodity..
Its the whole reason I started TWH… to make sure this would not happen..Of course the OZ investor does not get it by and large but he US investor does.
JLH
I'm not defending Jeremy Burgess as I don't know personally know him. It's just I've heard from some people working with him and from his online presence. That's all. If he's a crook, he is a crook, Detroit is full of them, but I don't want anybody to assume that I'm associated with him in any way. Too bad that this happened to Richard. I personally will do whatever it will be on my power to rectify this.
Hi Mihovi,
I would be interested to know which people you know who have worked with Mr. Burgess and if you could pass on their contact details that would be great.
Mihovi,,,
I hear ya,,, your first post said that you thought he was reputable.. and I am sure there is no way for you to know other than hear say…
AS you and I both Know the inside story, Richard Davies has been totally abused by Andrew and Jeremy and I can wholeheartily assure you they both knew exactly what they were doing, and I would have no doubt that Jeremy is not caught up in the PM fiasco as well.
This is not the first time I have seen or heard of this… I have been witness to other PMs who worked there company up to 200 to 300 units.. 200k a month gross income ,,,, And one day they say,,, hey this is 200k a month a few months of this and thats real money and off they run with 500k or more,,, happens more than we would like to know in the US>..
I know the OZ investors would just not fathom this… But you get into the inner city type thugs be them black or whites and you do at your own peril no doubt. Prison is full of them…
I deeply appreciate all that you have done for Richard,,, I know you have sent your people there to send pictures at no cost to Richard and give a true assessment.. I did not mean to paint a Jeremy burgess stroke of paint accross your bow…
<moderator: delete> now it appears that the rehabber which was probably his buddy just stole the dough.. Good possiblity the house was never rented and teh Prop manager never ran off with anything.. You had the black keetle calling the other black Kettle BLACK.. its a thang Yall.
I know I harp on this but if these folks had invested with TWH they would have had properties hand picked for them by their co owners that would stay in the deal till the end.. .Never ever have a cash call for any reason.. pocket 9% cash on cash after all experenses never need to spend money travelling her,,, never need to set up LLCs or do US tax returns… such a low cost set up that you add those basic cost into doing business the way you folks do them and that probably brings the yeild into the 11 range or more NET…. And not one freaking worry ever…. Still can't figure out why more Oz do not jump at this scheme and wish to take the total risks with really not knowing what they are doing…. Oh well…. Lucky me i have more US investors that I can handle.. But its almost like a chanllenge for me to at least get a few more doctors like the ones I got in Perth… Who understand risk reward.
This Hedge fund I am meet with today comes through and its by by baby ( thats what lon Simmons used to call a Willie Mays home run) now I am dating myself…. I will be too busy other than to poke around on here for fun….
At the end of the day though I really do not give a darn if I get any business from this site as i do not need it… but I have meet a few really special folks that we communicate and not all about real estate I give them travel advice and this like. And if Asked I will continue to help those who got into bad situations, I am good at digging to the truth very quickly and for no cost.. once I do that then its up to the OZ investor.. Just like the little lady in Phoenix who got royally screwed… I led her to a soluction but she thought we were going to do it all for free,,,, I worked for free for sure but the PM show was coming to the rescure to boot a free loader out of here house and turn him into the authorities because he stole 20k from here… She did not want to send 200 dollars to his trust account to pay for incedential fees. ludiricst really,,,then she rags on me that she thought this would all be done for free, not sure what planet she is on. we spent hours just getting her realtor to call her,,,, this had not happend in 3 months. I called and threatened her to her broker low and behold she reengages… what a mess.
any way nary a thankyou from this young lady she was pissed over the 200 dollars my Pm need to start eveictions…I doubt the matter got settle for 5 times that and her homes were probably were in even more desperite shape….
So one gets burned out trying to help and then get's lumped in with the spruikers.. when in fact she had me.. One of the top folks in the industry and my PM in Phoenix that runs almost 1500 units peronsally looking at her props.. Now you cannot get any better action that than.. but this aint the charity.. I will work for free guys on the ground need to be paid.. hey they are doing battle duty no doubt my man Bob went in with gun loaded and unholstered to confront this really nice tenant this really nice lady in ozz had.
I do not need any thanks at this point it seems it s not really in the oz culture maybe you feel pm and re agents should just do this all for free or something…
but you buy incitey hood properties and these are war zones with murders every day of the year its a special person who can work those hoods. 'and the biggest issue folks is they get scared and burnt out dealing with the lies and really tough tenant base.
JLH
Really good, interesting stuff as usual Jay. Many thanks for the input and if I ever do get some cash to invest with again, I will be looking in your direction. I don’t understand though what you mean by investing with TWH. Is that your company? As you know most Australians are quite slow when it comes to investing in US property, so I will need to have that part of your post spelt out in a bit finer detail.
Many thanks Mihovi for the 40 plus photos you took of my Detroit property and the analysis you did of it too. It was encouraging to get some positive pointers out of it. Just need to get the cash together now to renovate it, which as you know will take a while.
It’s great to know that you know Detroit so well and hold it in positive regard too.
Anyway continuing on from the last installment of this saga, and just to let you know that I am not going through all my email correspondences with Andrew Allan and also My USA Property, but just the main ones which really pinpoints how they misrepresented themselves. In this latest installment, with the email below, I attached the marketing document Andrew gave me before I bought the properties in late 2009.
By now, due to Andrew’s lack of action, my thinly veiled threats were becoming more overt. In a previous email I had threatened to take legal action, but unfortunately it didn’t really give the guy much of a jolt. Due to the costs of Youngstown exceeding the $8000 Andrew had mentioned it would cost to renovate, he ‘loaned me an additional $4000’, as I was not wanting to pump any more money into this investment when I had not received any returns even after 15 months at this stage. I also had a deposit to pay for an investment property in Australia too.
To: Andrew Allan
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: Settlement
Hi Andrew,
I am still waiting for your phone call. In regards to the $4000 you loaned me, that was because I was told by you when I first joined MYUS Property that the renovations would be no more than $8,000 for Youngstown. I promptly put the money in the bank account and it was sitting there for many months and nothing happened. If I had been told intially that the renovations were going to be $12,000 I would not have purchased the property.
Please refer to the attachment which I was given when I first joined MYUS Property. I refer to points 1 and 5. Firstly point one which states that the company will “allow 4-6 weeks vacany period for each property”. Well the Youngstown Property has been vacant for nearly 18 months, so that is obviously a misrepresentation.
Point 5 states “the correct property management is in place”. Clearly Ronnie Williams does not fit into that category. I don’t know how you found this crook and I would have definitely not brought the Detroit property if I had known that you had not properly checked out the agents in the US.
If you feel upset about me attacking your character, well feel comforted by the fact that I invested over $60,000 of my life savings into your company based on our face to face meetings and Malcolm’s recommendations. Settlement however is next week for my St. Kilda property, which you knew about when I first joined the company and you guaranteed that I would have definitely sold a property by now. I simply don’t have the money for settlement due to the fact that what you told me was going to happen regarding sales and cashflow has not occured.
I look forward to your response.
Gavin
Anyway here was Andrew Allan’s response, notice how he is still deflecting away responsibility, and is actually acting more victimised than myself. I can see the irony in this now. Anyway at least I got a quick response from him on this occasion. Neither of these emails were modified.
April 1st
Hi Gavin,
This week I have been unwell and in meetings. In relation to the renovation costs these are all estimated. I received quotes for less and some for more but on the average it was around $8,000. In relation to the document you send me you will see I don’t make any guarantees as I cant. I don’t own the properties and I never purchased the properties so I don’t have control over the vacancy period or can I control a property manager that decides to steal money and not do there job correctly. The reality is we cant control these elements. If I knew that Ronni was going to end up like this do you think I would have put you into this investment? How much do you think I make? Millions??? Did you know it takes me about 9-12 deals in the US to make what companies in Australia make on one single person buying an apartment??
Under no circumstances did I guarantee that these properties be sold prior to your settlement in St Kilda. I am doing all I can to get these issues resolved. There is no money for me to make but as your a client I am here to help. To say that I misrepresented pretty much everything I will not stand for. We have disclaimers to state that we cannot guarantee anything.
I understand your frustration Gavin and you need someone to blame. I am here to help you must remember that. I am waiting on Alan to get back to me as the church is looking at buying your Youngstown property. I can get it sold straight away but I need at least 1 tenant. Detroit I have followed up with Jeremy Burgess the wholesaler for his inspection. If you can give him a call because he has also lost about $500,000 thanks to the property management.
I have Debra following up as well. I will have further updates tomorrow my time.
Andrew
Anyway, Andrew took quite a while to respond after this, despite saying that he would the next day, which only added to the frustration. Despite numerous calls I have never ever been able to get in contact with Jeremy Burgess to validate whether he did get ripped off, it was really only Andrew Allan’s word. Many months later (around Christmas time) when still nothing had been done regarding renovating the properties, I pushed Andrew Allan to send me all his email correspondences with Jeremy Burgess. He made up some excuse that he was unable to transfer the information from his old computer. This was one of the main reasons that pushed me to go on the 730 Report.Just to let you know Andrews MyUSA website just has the home page removed. The rest of the site is still active.
http://myusaproperty.com.au/company.php
and here
And this company was set up 23rd April 2012
http://www.usapropertymanagement.com/
Why not become a member? Lol
Looks like Andrew allan tried to fob off the wrong person ………eh Gavin
you think he's not sitting at his computor in Orlando reading this
Unfortunately I actually don’t think Andrew would be taking much interest in this forum Knox, which is why this problem occurred in the first place.
If Andrew had been a conscientious property expert such as Emma, Jay, Ziv or the many others on this forum I wouldn’t need to be communicating my situation now. A very simple strategy for Andrew would been for him to go to an actual property expert in the US with decades of experience and ask them to help me get me out of this mess. But I doubt his ego would have allowed that.
No, I honestly think at this moment Andrew is simply focusing on his next sell and putting virtually all his energy into his marketing services. A case in point being through the help of people on this forum I was able to find legitimate property managers, who could actually adequately manage each property, within weeks of looking for them whereas Andrew was unable to find them for me over the course of two and a half years.
How could I say? Andrew is all spice without any substance and I guess my postings on this forum will (hopefully) make others aware of him and other such charismatic marketing property gurus.
Hi Gavin,
Your posts have been a real eye opener to the rogues out there, I really appreciate your openness and honesty in sharing this information with us all.
Anyone who has read your posts, has definitely felt the pain and anxiety that you have gone through ! !
We have all made our mistakes and have our wins and loses, and that's what we all learn from, but not everyone has the courage to admit to their bad times, pride tends to get in the way.
I think though that you will be a success in your future endeavours, with the help of the good people on this site to help out.
and one more thing, Your a legend ! !
Thanks for the encouragement Dubs, and I agree with the fact that I will better off with the help of others on this site.
I can actually say that through the guidance of Jeremy Laws, his mate Marty Stone and Emily I have been able to find decent property managers for each property and developed strategies to get back on my feet. Emily even paid the back tax for one of the properties on my behalf and I am now paying her back each month in installments, which is amazing and really is far and beyond any thing I would expect. It really does show she as a genuine empathy for people and is willing to go the extra mile. She would be the first person I would be willing to invest with in the future.
Actually since I started communicating on this forum around 6 months ago, things have really improved.
Thanks everyone.
Anyway, still stuck in the last year regarding this My USA Property farse, but things start take another turn for the worst. After Mr. Allan responded to me on April 1st last year, stating that he would get back to me within the next few days, I didn’t hear from him for nearly a month. so I sent numerous emails, here was one of them:
On 25/04/11 5:43 PM, “Gavin Hicks” wrote:
Hi Andrew,
What is happening with the properties? I have sent numerous emails to (you secretary) Deb
who said she was meeting you last Monday and have not heard back from her.(The property manager) Allan Applegate has also been very vague about when the Youngstown
properties will be rented out. For the past two months he has been saying
once the electricity is connected the properties will be rented out. That
was February now it’s nearly May.I am in desperate need of the money and currently falling further into
debt due to the fact I have been able to sell, let alone rent out these
white elephants.Gavin
Andrew Allan responded on the 26th of April;
Hi Gavin,
I had a draft email to you so you have beaten me to it. Finally we had the
guys in Detroit go out and inspect the property and there is a tenant in
there not paying rent. They will move out if we give them $200. I have
arranged for this to be paid. They will also go there and clean up the
place and do a full inspection which is another $300 which I have covered
too. Once I know the full condition we will get back on the market and
sold ASAP!!In relation to Youngstown I left a message for Alan today to call me back.
I need to confirm works are done or at least close then I will email it
out to the buyers to sell. If I get that within the next 2 days I will
have it emailed out by Thursday our time. I would expect it to sell
quickly.All this sounded very optimistic, but remember NEITHER of the properties have been renovated or rented out and this is now May 2012. Please note the difference between SPIN and ACTION. Sigh. By the way I never received receipts for the money Andrew said he paid, so I’m only taking his word that he did this.
Anyway I contacted some Orlando property watchdogs, newspapers etc. about Mr. Allan’s comings and goings, got a little interest but not much. Contacted Consumer Affairs but as far as they stated they would just put the compliant on file.
Would like to know if anyone else has some suggestions?
Hi Andrew Allen,
Would like to know if anyone else has some suggestions?
Suggestion: Buy Gavins houses from him.
I always tell people to look at a comparison snapshot of eleementary to high schools for demographic shifts. Fascinating for transitions.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. If you don't have an account, you can register here.
