Hi all just me again!
Unfortunately I'm having problems with a tenant that use to be great and now it's getting worse and worse.
They were fine paying rent for 6 months until they said they had a death in the family and couldn't pay for a while. i was fine with this as I wasn't desperate for rent and they were good tenants, then they started getting behind more and more.
After it got to a few thousand (4 weeks rent) I sent them a late rent notice and then went they didn't catch up I sent them a termination form on Feb 4 to to vacate in a bit over two weeks. I told them word of mouth that they could stay if they paid all of the rent owed.Now they got close to what was owed and I forgot about it and they started paying rent slow but still not on time. During this time some of the fences on the property blew down. One of the tenants said not to worry they will get some sheets to replace them (two sheets). I was like ok.
A few months ago about 4 sheets blew down. I told them I would have my insurance company look into it once they catch up on the rent. Since I've read fences are not listed as an urgent repair. They put up a temp fence.
Now carrying on they stopped paying rent at all and i followed this is with sms's and emails as they wont answer ever answer phone calls. They said they repaired the fence themselves without my permission, changed a couple other parts of the fence which were not damaged and now they want me to pay $625 to cover the material they paid for. I told them no I didn't authorise it and wont be paying. (It's over twice the amount I would pay in excess from the insurance company)
I have email evidence saying they are with holding rent until I pay for it. I told them this is illegal and they said they got told by a lawyer to do it <moderator: delete language>, and emailed them links to government websites saying it's illegal.
Yesterday I've logged a claim online with the magistrates court to have a hearing. I haven't told them this yet as they don't think I will take them to court because they said if I kicked them out they will take me to court.
They have also said if they leave they'll pull out all the fences they replaced leaving it empty, remove stuff from the bathroom they installed (have no idea what and didn't give them permission) remove a tv antenna I never gave them permission to install, it already had one that was fine when I lived their.
Now I've got email evidence from them saying they are with holding rent, installed and will remove stuff they installed without my permission. I have a spreadsheet of all the rent they have paid over the lease and the date they have been late, what they owe (pretty great spreadsheet).
Now the questions I have is I've never been to court, I've read on the W.A. commerce website what happens during the court process and what evidence I need which from what I have is as good as I think it can get.
Can anyone see any problems that might occur with me not repairing the fence and the tenants repairing it them self?
They do have a dog but the temporary fence they put up was fine.I've seen on the government website that If they have not left after the date I gave them on the termination notice I have 30 days to log a claim with the magistrates court or I have to do the process all over again. (been about 45 days). Will this matter? If not;
1. Can I get them with damaging property (removing non damaged fences), removing antenna and everything like that?
2. One thing I haven't done is claim the bond on this claim as they haven't moved out yet. I will be claiming if they remove anything if it is not how it was when they moved in. Is this correct?
3. I do have landlord insurance but one thing I noticed is they must not be on a periodical lease which did start last week as I wasn't going to renew it. Will insurance still have to cover this still? I haven't called them up, should I be doing this now or after the magistrate hearing or them moving out?Sorry about the long post but trying to get everything in as accurate as possible. Any advice will be great! (Remember this is W.A. so will differ to other states)
Hi RyanJD,
If I were in your shoes, I would go and see a solicitor. If you do this wrong, it is possible that you may be out money. You've said that you gave them permission to fix the fences, did you say you would pay for further repairs? Did you say you would reimburse them? Do you have any of this in writing. The spreadsheet is good, did you give them receipts for their rent? Can you prove what they paid, and what they didn't?
This is a good example of why everything should go in writing. I wouldn't sms them or try to call them, from now on everything should go by registered post. You have proof that you advised them, and they cannot argue that they didn't receive it. I think that you should advise them of the forthcoming proceedings, they can threaten to take you to court, it all comes down to whether you have done everything correctly and covered yourself every step of the way.
I'd still get legal advice.
Good luck, let us know how you go.
D
DWolfe | www.homestagers.com.au
http://www.homestagers.com.au
Email MeHi Derek thanks, I've actually read that website over a dozen times, every form, document and it points out I'm doing anything correctly. The only thing the website doesn't say is how much time you have to give them on the termination form to move out of the house.
DWolfe, I didn't say I would pay for further repairs, only said I would pay them for materials on the first fences none of the others. None of this is in writing, which I can not see as a perk for them.
I didn't give them receitpts for rent as the commerce website as Derek posted says direct debit doesn't need a reciept. Otherwise i would of had to give them one within 3 days of getting rent. I can prove what they have paid as they have only paid to the same bank account. They haven't get reciept's to proove they pay any by cash.
Yep I'm glad they replied the next day they got the mail for termination otherwise they could of said they didn't get it. The website says either mail by normal post or handing it to them which doubt they would take it.
I'm actually glad I researched all this before leasing the house out. Strange to say but I'm excited to go to court and have this done as it will be a good learning experience for myself for future landlording! New tenacy act comes into place soon so I'll have to look into that as well. Good chance I'll have to go back to court after they move out to claim bond or further payment if they cause damage to the property.
Any other advise people can offer? Is legal advice tax deductable? I know you can not have a laywer represent you in the Magistrates court unless both parties agree from reading the website.
Hi Ryan,
Maybe make enquiry of a friendly local agent. Explain the situation and they may be able to give you the answer.
Derek
Tenants have paid all the money owed few days after I posted this.
They also said my neighbours have given them the money for the fence repair, don't know whether to believe that or not.
Tenants are requesting to stay another three months on a fixed lease as they are building their house.
Hearing is tomorrow we'll see what happens. I do find it strange that the hearing was so quick as I applied online last Sunday and its this Wednesday.
I was a property manager, and the tenants don’t have a leg to stand on. As long as you have recorded evidence that u have tried to contact and reason with them, it should be fine. There is no excuse for unpaid rent unless the place is not live able etc. they have made no effort to give you good reason why rent isn’t paid, and as for the fence they did not request for it to be fixed, they did not get quotes prior to fixing etc and invoice with Abn for insurance purposes. I would personally not allow them to stay on for three months, evict them and find new tenants…
KostaI have to say, I'd probably want to move them along too. It's not about being a nice guy, or being their best friend. It's about collecting the rent. Can you get rent in advance? If so, I'd probably think about letting them stay. What happens at the end when they vacate the property? Will they vacate? Will the rent get paid? You need to ask yourself the hard questions.
Good Luck, let us know how you go so we can all learn
DWolfe | www.homestagers.com.au
http://www.homestagers.com.au
Email MeReading all the above, it just reinforces my justification for paying my excellent property managers
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
Just went to court Wednesday, tenants didn't show. Contract has been terminated by the judge after i showed them the evidence. They have 7 days to leave the premises. So we will see what happens.
They are currently 1 month behind in rent.
I got landlord insurance.I totally AGREE Paul- good property manager is good as gold. Doing it yourself can lead to all sorts of problems- traps that you dont understand.
Its good that you have the notice to evict- but what now? Its not all that easy. Tenants have all the rights. They can in Victoria still come back to court and plead their case as I have seen recently with a friend. Its not over til they are out.
However, if I were you, I would take a step back – your language sounds like you are out to get them- this is not helpful if going to court or for yourself. Talk to a legal person. I have found Consumer Affairs in this state helpful but not always right.
In Victoria at least, you can hold the rent because you paid for repairs- you must keep paying rent until the issues are sorted. You must keep receipts for repairs and it must be approved by the landlord. If they dont have this in writing- then they cant claim it.Good to hear it's now sorted out.
Get yourself an experienced property manager from day dot to avoid these dramas – now they're out it's best to take it as a push to employ someone to ensure this doesn't happen in the future.
There are endless stories like this one where things go pear shaped because an owner is not 100% on the laws and legislation in place and the tenants are well aware of their rights and play on that.
Kristin, it does not sound sorted to me. There is an eviction order by the sound of it but the tenants are still in the property….. dadadummmm… “to be continued in our next”……….
As I say- good property managers are Gold Gold Gold!
You can do it yourself but why do landlords bother with the drama’s I dont know.
There are so many laws and things to know. Also the benefit of keeping things at arms length! If you are involved, your emotions can get in the way- it can hurt you if you are in front of a judge or magistrate.Hi Ryan,
When they do move out make sure you change the locks, in-case they have cut a spare.
Good luck . .
Well I told the court they owe about $2700, didn't move out or pay the rent before the notice termination day. Did not mention anything else. One thing to note is that the court application is 30 days max from the termination date, i knew this but forgot the days which ended up being 31 days but the judge said he has accepted it under his power to do so. The court hearing was about 5 minutes.
I might get a property manager as the new W.A. tenancy laws start tomorrow and I have not had a chance to read all of it.
I don't believe a property manager would of made it any easier as I like to know what it happening with my investments, I have lots of free time working 4 on 4 off to do it all myself.I will be changing the locks unfortunately I can't claim it until next end of financial year.
I'm not out to get the tenants, I gave them 6 months due to the amount of things that happens to them. Don't know if i believe them all though. They do keep the house tidy as I drive by ever few months.The tenant wants to leave on the 18th August as he is building his own house which is why he has been strapped for cash he said. If he leave with out paying the rent and does any damage I will be able to find him as the new house will be in his name. This means I'll be able to serve a court notice at the house so he won't be able to hide.
I'll let you know what happens, I'm still waiting for the court papers in the mail and I'll get them Monday or Tuesday.
Time to give up vacant posession of the property was Wednesday. Tenant says he knows nothing about it and wont move because and didn't get any letters from the court. Also says he has the best lawyer in Australia! Must of been the same lawyer who told him to withhold rent from me haha.
Just filed for a Property (Seizure and Delivery) Order which was about $450! Added to costs for tenant to pay. Court passes this on to a bailiff. Been advised by court bailiff will attend property next week without myself to tell tenant to move on. If tenant doesn't move I will be called and the bailiff, myself, a locksmith and possibly police will attend if they refuse to leave peacefully.
Tenant still has all his stuff in the house and garage so these things will be moved to storage and if he doesn't pay I will go through the process to use the tenant belonging to recover the money I am owed.
Totally costs owed so far just went over the $4000 mark. Fortunatly I have lots of money in the offset to keep me going. I feel for the people who require rent to survive!
Well your tenant is technically right. If he is not notified- and you don’t have evidence he has been notified then he might get to stay.
It is a very costly exercise- cost of bailiff and changing locks.
I don’t understand why the tenant is acting this way either.
But it seems you are forced to do this as the tenant is not playing by the rules as it were.
I just don’t get what is on some peoples minds, how they think they can not pay rent and keep staying on??The tenant still lives at the address and both court notices were send to that address by the courts. I got mine fine so good chance he is lying like the rest of the things he lies about. I've got emails and sms's that he has been lying about things through out the last 6 months in case he wants to play innoccent to the courts which I'll use it as evidence.
From what I have read, once the bailiff has been organised by the courts its not likely the tenant will be able to stop it. They had a chance to come to court, go back to court after the hearing but not after the bailiff has been called in and paid. The tenants excuse for not going to court was they had to work. Doubt the judge will accept that.
Also this is now under the Civil Judgments Enforcement Act as the bailiff has been called in.He is acting as he has a right to stay until his house is built in August. Not sure what his problem is, I think i was to nice from the start I fixed problems they had the next morning when they sms'd that day.
I've already found new tenants who want to move in less then 3 weeks time who want to pay the same amount with 1 month rent in advance, known the person for awhile and they have a previous landlord & current boss as reference, have the money and details ready for me.
Hopefully this will be done before next weekend so I can have the house cleaned and ready for new tenants!
Unlucky for me this didn't happen a few months ago go I could of claimed if back on tax this year.
I think you are right – once the bailiff is called in- its the slippery slope down for the tenant.
From my own experience – the judges will accept ANY excuse as to why the tenant did not attend on the day- just depends on the judge/magistrate on the day. I have heard them accept less.
AND i have heard the court in my own experience accept less for whether they got the letter or not. I would even go as far as to say they might not accept – and again in my experience – so first hand – text messages and emails.
They do however see through lies and deception and while they may let sms’s and texts slip through to the keeper- they DO get VERY testy if someone thinks they came down in the latest shower! That is the tenant can kind of get away with say one lie but they start to see very quickly if there are gaping holes in the story.
Good you have a new tenant to move in.
I think it pays off in the long run to be nice but to act within your rights and the rights of the tenant- set the ground rules or how it is going to be from the start.
I have been dealing with a tenant that is a right pain in the “A..” but they are working within the tenancy act every time. Damn!
I am sure you can claim what you want to in this years tax return if it is eligible this year, it will be next tax year.Thanks for the input "WomenInPropMelb", I just hope I can get all of this done quickly so I can move new tenants in and carry on looking for another IP.
It has been a good learning curve for myself as I've only been a landloard a year and a bit. I have friends who are private landlords and they wouldn't have a clue what the process is if a tenant stops paying rent.
I've got most of next week off work so I'll be able to organise stuff better. Hopefully this all happens at the start of the week.
I need to find out about are getting a locksmith, might just call a few in the closest suburb and see if they know the process. I'm sure some have had this request before.
Also need to find out the best way in claiming the bond and unpaid rent as I doubt the tenant will provide a forwarding address for the court documents to be sent to even though its a 'possible' fine.I don't know if anyone knows this but if the tenant actually had a lawyer shouldn't the lawyer try to contact me to sort this out?
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