All Topics / Legal & Accounting / CGT moving out of PPOR and then moving back within 6 years

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  • Profile photo of LXChev350LXChev350
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    @lxchev350
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 3

    Hi first post :)

    I love all the help in here..thanks in advance.

    I built a new home in Oct 2002 and have lived in it from day 1.
    I would like to buy and build a another new home and move into that home. I then wish to rent out my old home and then maybe move back into it again within the 6 year date of moving out.

    What are the CGT issues I need to worry about when I do eventually sell the first PPOR.

    I am now 51 and hope to retire @ 57 to 60 depending on how my Portfolio goes in that time.

    I also own 3 other Investment properties but all 3 have been renters from day 1, so of course they will be subject to CGT once they sell.

    One other issue to take into account is I currently earn a Defence Force retirement pension (DFRDB), so when I retire I still get a wage, which is currently @ $20K and is indexed to CPI.

    so what I am trying to ask is:

    I move out of PPOR and move into a new PPOR… I then move back into the first PPOR within 6 years and then sell it and then move back into the second PPOR…and then later sell that as well…what CGT will I pay on each of the places. ??

    or is the moving back and forth a waist of time…

    Current Portfolio
    1 x PPOR
    3 x Rentals

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    You can only count CGT exemption for one period. So one of the properties would be subject to CGT. The good thing is that it may be possible to chose which property.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of LXChev350LXChev350
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    @lxchev350
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 3

    Thanks Terry.

    So am I able to keep my current PPOR exempt from CGT even though I move out of it and rent it out?

    is there a time limit on how long it can be rented out before the PPOR CGT exception expires?

    Profile photo of Dan42Dan42
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    @dan42
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 619
    LXChev350 wrote:
    Thanks Terry. So am I able to keep my current PPOR exempt from CGT even though I move out of it and rent it out? is there a time limit on how long it can be rented out before the PPOR CGT exception expires?

    The time limit is 6 years.

    Terry's point is that the, as you can only have one Main Residence at a time, the new house you are building would be subject to CGT, if you elect to keep the first house as your main residence.

    Profile photo of JLHJLH
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    @jlh
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 2

    Hi

    I'm in QLD and looking at entering into a contract with an extended 90 day settlement, and which gives me the right to assign the contract prior to settlement (idea is to tidy up and onsell the place prior to settlement).  However I have it in my head that these assignment clauses can sometimes trigger a 'double (stamp) duty' problem.

    Is anyone able to advise whether this is correct or not.  Many thanks for your time :)

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Yes, you will pay stamp duty and so will the end purchaser.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of ChrisA1ChrisA1
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    @chrisa1
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 172

    Hi

    I am also interested in the 6 year rule and the point that Dan made about only claiming 1 property as your PPOR confuses me.

    I bought an apartment in 2009 lived in it until renting it from 2010, meaning I should have until 2016 to sell it and claim benefits under the 6 year rule. Since I have been renting the apartment from 2010, I have obviously moved into another house, my current PPOR, so does that mean that I can't claim CGT benefits on my current PPOR since I have already claimed CGT benefits on another property? We would be looking to move from our current PPOR in 10-15 years' time.

    Cheers,

    ChrisA1

    Persistence is 'to keep on keeping on, no matter how hard the going may be'

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Post Count: 16,213

    Yes, you can only claim one place as your main residence at any one time. But the election is when you do the tax return after you have sold one. So you should work out which one to claim so that you save the most tax.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of luke86luke86
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    @luke86
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 470

    Hi Chris- you can only claim 1 PPOR at any one time. So if you move into a new PPOR, your old PPOR is no longer covered by the CGT exemption. Hoever you don't have to decide which one to call you PPOR until you sell so you can decide which one to call your PPOR when it comes time to sell to get the best tax outcome.

    If you could claim more than one PPOR people with multiple properties would just say they have moved from house to house and never pay CGT which is ridiculous.

    Cheers,
    Luke

    Profile photo of ChrisA1ChrisA1
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    @chrisa1
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 172

    Many thanks for your comments, I am sure the ATO have this well covered!

    So… to complicate things, what would happen if I 'sold' my ownership in our current PPOR to my partner so he became sole owner of our PPOR. I would transfer my ownership to my partner in our PPOR before selling my investment property – since I am taking my name off the title deeds, is this still regarded a 'sale' and therefore would I either need to pay CGT on the transfer of my 50% in our PPOR, or pay CGT when selling my apartment (since I sold the apartment after selling my share of my current PPOR to my partner)).

    I would be looking to transfer my ownership as part of setting up a trust as well to keep our PPOR as far away from the investments under the trust as possible.

    I would hope that 15 years of capital appreciation is greater than 5-6 (and therefore a bigger CGT bill on our PPOR)!

    I realise this is getting into muddy territory…. glad the accountant's appointment is on Wednesday….

    Cheers, 

    ChrisA1

    Persistence is 'to keep on keeping on, no matter how hard the going may be'

    Profile photo of JLHJLH
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    @jlh
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 2

    Thanks Terry – much appreciated.  A costly mistake avoided!!!

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Partners – as in spouses – can only have one main residence between them.

    CGT is calculated at market values too so when you transferred your interest to him you would be up for CGT on amrket value at the time of the transfer – unless the exemption applied.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of luke86luke86
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    @luke86
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 470

    Hi Terry- Do you need to tell the Land Titles Office (or whatever it is called) what your PPOR is so they can work out whether you need to pay land tax? So if you tell them what your PPOR is, does the ATO have access to this information when it comes time for CGT?

    Cheers,
    Luke

    Profile photo of ChrisA1ChrisA1
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    @chrisa1
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 172

    Many thanks Terry…..

    The ATO didn't come down in the last shower….. Time for the thinking cap. It has clarified my approach whether/when to sell the apartment…

    Cheers,

    ChrisA1

    Persistence is 'to keep on keeping on, no matter how hard the going may be'

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
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    Yes, the land tax office needs to know. They have different criteria too.

    In NSW there is a 6 year exemption for absence from the main residence but it is much more complex than the income tax version. Very hard to qualify for too.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of ChrisA1ChrisA1
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    @chrisa1
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 172

    Hi Terry,

    Could you explain a little further please?  Our PPOR is in NSW, investment property (my name only) is in ACT.

    Cheers,

    ChrisA1

    Persistence is 'to keep on keeping on, no matter how hard the going may be'

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    You will probably be exempt from land tax on the NSW one. You will need to look into the land tax requirements for ACT to see if you need to pay land tax and if there are any exemption provisions for absence from main residneces (assuming it was a main residence before). I don't know anything about ACT and land tax.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of ChrisA1ChrisA1
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    @chrisa1
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 172

    Many thanks Terry

    The can of worms is getting messier. Even if I pay CGT on the transfer of my ownership to my partner to allow me to claim CGT on my investment property (which I initially lived in), I am feeling that when we sell our current PPOR in 15 years time things could be messy since I claimed CGT benefits on a previous property (even though legally I wouldn't be the owner of the PPOR at the time of sale).

    Cheers,

    ChrisA1

    Persistence is 'to keep on keeping on, no matter how hard the going may be'

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    CHris, i am not following totally.

    If you transfer ownership you are out of the picture. WHen you evenutally sell the partner will be up for any CGT and may not be able to claim an exemption for yourshare if he didn't live in that share and establish it as his main residence. He may also miss out on claming the exemption on the other share of the house that he owned from the beginning if you had claimed a main residence elsewhere during the same time period .

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of LXChev350LXChev350
    Member
    @lxchev350
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 3

    thanks for all the replies…I am much wiser now.

    Cheers

    Pete

    (I was the original poster)

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 21 total)

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