Hi,
This post is geared towards our American posters who regularly contributed to this forum…appreciate you guys on board and giving us your local perspective investing in the US.
While surfing the net for real estate books for US market, I accidentally stumbled on John T. Reed. This guy is very gutsy on critizing some of the giant of Real Estate Investors (REI) . The link below mentioned some of the REI that he critic…and he make some valid points.
http://www.johntreed.com/Reedgururating.html
JTR has been around for 23 years and published countless of bookings in real estate.
Has anyone read any of his books? Are they worth buying considering you pay almost double compared with what you pay in http://www.amazon.com for other real estate investment books.
Appreciate any of your feedback.
Cheers
Well, i guess you have to take both side of the story (i.e, the negative side and the positive side then make up your own mind….this way it makes you a well informed real estate investor.)
Ok I am going to take this one on because its a great point and agree or not. Guys like Alex, myself Cheeves, the Detroit guys KC
all have far more real world experience than any of these Book Hawkers and tape and mentoring systems.
Your own guy that either owns this site or whatever and has the power pack he is doing basically the same thing only it does sound like this guy has actually bought some property… there is far more money in selling the books tapes and mentoring than there is buying and selling property for that I can assure you.
It started back in the day with David Del Dotto and Carlton Sheets. Del Dotto would pitch his stuff from a set on the beach in Hawaii surrounded by some babe's in bikini's.
Fast forward 30 years and guess were Del Dotto is…. He is in the Napa Valley and making wine…. His winery is 300 feet from my front door of my house. I have sat and drank wine with Him many times and talked of his TV days…He is a crazy dude and very fun and funny. Go to the internet and you will See Del Dotto wines. and his winery on Atlas peak road. its a great old building with wine caves etc. And guess what property David bought with his revenue from the Infomercial, he bought 10 acres of prime Cab vineyard on the Rutherford Bench in St. Helena.
For someone with no knowledge of Real Estate these course's and books are good to get familiar with the vocabulary and the basics of real estate ( Like what is Equity) things as basic as this.
So what this site your first asking about is doing is giving an opinion on all the different books and tape sellers and mentoring companies from this guys point of view. And I think he is pretty straight forward and correct about his assessment of each of these companies products.
So a little background that folks might find interesting.
These front men and women " Guru's" are all self proclaimed by and large.
Their engines that make them run are Huge Marketing companies with Huge boiler rooms ( call centers). With the Majority based out of Salt Lake City and Provo Utah. There are 9 of them that I personally know of.
These companies develop the work product ( books and Tapes) they orginize the seminars. And its their professional speakers that make the presentations and then try to up sell you to the next level IE 3 day boot camp…. Then once you have paid for that then of course you need your Mentor and you sign up for the 1 year mentoring program either the Silver or Gold package.
Now lets go to one company I know of Premiere marketing Provo…. I have been in their offices. they have big tombstones in the conference room they just put Armando Montolongo on the map,,,, Bob Diamond and Laura longiliner ( not correct spelling)
You walk back into the Bull Pen (boiler room ) call center whatever you want to call it and there sits your Mentor's there are literally 100 plus sitting in their cubes with there head sets on. Big coolers of Red Bull and Mtn. Dew at the ready for them. Non of them over 25 to 30 years old and all of them reading scripts….. There job is to do nothing more than keep you in the program and to keep you paying for the service. Not one of these guys has been to, seen, or knows really anything more than the Marketing company has tought them,,, absolutly no real world experience. And not to be political or talk religon, however these are Mormon run companies and these kids are used to going on their mormon missions and going door to door so they are experts at rejection and sales it just comes naturally…. I digress but its the same for the Alarm business in the states that is run door to door.
So this guy who critiques the Guru's is certainly a good resource….
However I think the public will do just fine buying the books from Amazon or going on E bay and buying any of these guru's course's used.
Another good site to go to is called The RIP OFF report… Most of the RE snake oil guys are posted on there you can read all about these mentoring programs on this web site from those that have paid more than the price of a nice rental in Atlanta just for the course and never bought a thing.
Jay:
Great writeup…My in-laws live 2 doors down from Russ Whitney. He was the rags to riches guy, went way uphill, downhill and back and forth a dozen times… See my John T Reed response at the end.I have seen others operations as well (one out of Salt Lake City) and have seen the boiler rooms. My opinion is that each and every investor needs to network, go to forums, get out there on foot and learn for themselves. Every investor is different. It is almost a guarantee that if you buy a guru's information you will be broke in 3 years if not less.
My personal experience: I am 33 years old, started as a realtor, went commercial, hired as an exec for a bank, bank went belly up…now am a realtor / investor / sometimes speaker. I made millions…tried to hold on..lost my ass and then some.. took a loan from an investor in 2009 and started buying / fixing / flipping…Today, my investor is paid back and I own rentals again at a much more comfortable number. The lessons I have learned are priceless beyond any book or what any guru could teach me.Bottom line, you will learn a lot from experience, research, and pains in between (regardless of the degree)… At 33, I can tell you so many things what NOT to do more than what TO DO. Keep in mind, at the time I was investing in what I eventually lost, I was still living within my means.
I like to say I have that knack now and to me that is what makes me what I think is a good investor today.
The gurus like to talk and make it sound great..>They will even have Tony Robbins in to pump you up and put you into a trance that will give you the most ecstatic feeling in the world…Know why? It makes you feel a little better when you spend $20k on their seminars!
Do your own research…
<moderator: delete personal comment>
CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
http://www.CommercialRealEstateVoice.com
Email Me | Phone MeI totally agree, experience is priceless.
Jim Rohn used to say " Knowledge uninvested in activity is wasted". In the word, you can read all the IP books you want BUT, if you don't apply what you've learned, it will be wasted. He also used to say " Be a good student NOT follower". Which means, soak up everything, filter the important bits and add some of your experience into someone else idealogy then apply the knowledge….DON'T JUST RUN WITH IT FROM SOME ESLE IDEA.
Very interesting insight about the huge boiler rooms….like to have some of the big cooler of Red Bull stuff
I think you pay under $4 bucks here for 600 ml…something like that very expensive.Anyway, I listened to one of recent Kiyosakis' audio book and he described himself as producer of DERIVATIVE. A derivative is something extracted from something that generates an income. For instance you've described above, attend his seminars, then you have to pay for the books, membership, CDs, royalties etc., which all extracted from his philosophy, that is how he makes money…..that's how the rich getting richer.
This is my two cents
I will speak about fighting not real estate for a moment. I been competing in Jui jitsu tournaments since 2000. Having won 66 matches and lost 6 ( six loses cost me a few dollars not wanting to tap ) The point I am trying to make is this is not a hobby but a job for me as is real estate. I could not do this by just reading books and listening to Guru"s.. Instead I had to walk the walk and talk the talk.
Now Jump to Real estate I am 38 years old the first book I read on real estate was Carlton sheets. I was a 21 year old bartending at hard Rock Cafe in Myrtle beach South Carolina. Long story short alot of these books do give you an idea and a map. They just leave out most of the details that you must learn from what I call the school of hard knocks.
I can add to what Jay and Cheeves said but not here to bash any one. I don't sell books . I think I can speak for most
We build real estate portfolio's buy raising private capital, selling and keeping some of homes for cash flow.All have different strategies .My real estate partner says as a joke we should jump in and get a book deal. So we can start selling information on how to raise capital, how to be a seminar speaker, doing your first radio show, or buying and selling houses. To be honest I still love the real estate game and the daily challenges it brings. I do know I am building my way to my own financial freedom one house at a time.
Sorry if my writing is not as clean as others. My wife who is awesome along with my staff. Usually checks and proof reads my writing for me …
Alex
I like your sense of homour Alex…you're writing is fine
As said before, "knowledged uninvested in activity is wasted". If you don't apply what you've learned, what's the point of learning it.
12 months ago, I spent a lot of time reading real estate investment books…spent about close to $1K…. The fundamental of real estate investment in the US and Australia has high degree of similarity (e.g., buy at the buttom of the market, sell on the top of the market, flip, buy old house add value through renovation (or rehab in the US) etc)…but that is where the similarities end. The US real estate market is massive compared with the size of our market here and a lot of variables to learn etc. So I armed my self with the fundamental stuff, did my due diligence and 12months later I bought 3 properties near Atlanta, GA. Now, that is "knowledged invested in activity leads to success".
Time permits, I will be doing what you love doing in the US, because for me Real Estate investment is a wealth building machine since wealth creation happens when you buy appreciating asset that generates passive income overtime. Some people do flip, that's fine, if you want to accelerate your cash, but if you sell your IP, you will never get a cent from that property again…it is like killing the goose that lay the golden egg. But, I challenge that notion specially if your IP is not performing well maybe time to sell up etc. So horses for courses. But, the opposite is true also, buy depreciating asset (e.g., car) and it looses in value the moment you drive it away from the showroom….this will decrease your NET WORTH.
WEATH CREATION IS ALL ABOUT NET WORTH.
I don't understand why people makes real estate investment a rocket science, it is not just do your home work (e.g., get educated, associate yourself with like minded people, like you guys here in this forum etc).
I've been in the IT industry for over a decade and time and time again, I see engineers make simple things complex…I also say this to them use my KISS method.
Keep
It
Simple
SonDHCP wrote:I like your sense of homour Alex…you're writing is fineAs said before, "knowledged uninvested in activity is wasted". If you don't apply what you've learned, what's the point of learning it.
12 months ago, I spent a lot of time reading real estate investment books…spent about close to $1K…. The fundamental of real estate investment in the US and Australia has high degree of similarity (e.g., buy at the buttom of the market, sell on the top of the market, flip, buy old house add value through renovation (or rehab in the US) etc)…but that is where the similarities end. The US real estate market is massive compared with the size of our market here and a lot of variables to learn etc. So I armed my self with the fundamental stuff, did my due diligence and 12months later I bought 3 properties near Atlanta, GA. Now, that is "knowledged invested in activity leads to success".
Time permits, I will be doing what you love doing in the US, because for me Real Estate investment is a wealth building machine since wealth creation happens when you buy appreciating asset that generates passive income overtime. Some people do flip, that's fine, if you want to accelerate your cash, but if you sell your IP, you will never get a cent from that property again…it is like killing the goose that lay the golden egg. But, I challenge that notion specially if your IP is not performing well maybe time to sell up etc. So horses for courses. But, the opposite is true also, buy depreciating asset (e.g., car) and it looses in value the moment you drive it away from the showroom….this will decrease your NET WORTH.
WEATH CREATION IS ALL ABOUT NET WORTH.
I don't understand why people makes real estate investment a rocket science, it is not just do your home work (e.g., get educated, associate yourself with like minded people, like you guys here in this forum etc).
I've been in the IT industry for over a decade and time and time again, I see engineers make simple things complex…I also say this to them use my KISS method.
Keep
It
Simple
SonLove the part about yes keep it simple .Years ago I kept a fund ( $5k )for just education and seminars as I still do today. Instead now I find my self flying out to meet People like Jay Hinrichs. Funny we are both in the states and one of his companies actually lent me money years ago to buy and flip.With out direct contract met him threw this forum. Today I fly out to other teams that are successful, and see what I can do to better our system . I still go to seminars and read real estate related books.Heck if we can apply one technique we learn and it adds to our bottom line ( Great ) but you are correct this is not rocket science but simple rules must apply..
Well back to work and back to the grind.
I got a client flying in the 7th of Jan from this forum( Adelaide ). After the fact I think you can ask more about me and our company.
Alex
Alex SC wrote:if we can apply one technique we learn and it adds to our bottom line ( Great ) but you are correct this is not rocket science but simple rules must apply……... The rules, what I called the fundamental………..learn the fundamental first….fundamentals are old and in the books.
ideas are in the books….people who've gone before us already pave the way to success, again i use my KISS method, no need to reimvent the wheels just stick with the fundamental……………..I totally agree with you Alex…………if one idea can assist the bottom line is far more superior than doing the same thing and getting the same result without any room for improvement. This is also true in business as well as in personal development.
Good luck with your business meeting the guy from Adelaide.
DHCP wrote:Alex SC wrote:if we can apply one technique we learn and it adds to our bottom line ( Great ) but you are correct this is not rocket science but simple rules must apply……... The rules, what I called the fundamental………..learn the fundamental first….fundamentals are old and in the books.
ideas are in the books….people who've gone before us already pave the way to success, again i use my KISS method, no need to reimvent the wheels just stick with the fundamental……………..I totally agree with you Alex…………if one idea can assist the bottom line is far more superior than doing the same thing and getting the same result without any room for improvement. This is also true in business as well as in personal development.
Good luck with your business meeting the guy from Adelaide.
Personal Development has a direct effect on my life and the ones in my close net work. Working daily to make sure we all strive to be do and be better in life..This real estate business is been here before me and after me.So following the roads already laid down just making sure they fit with today's real estate market….
Alex
I would like to add my 2c on this as well.
I have considerably more admiration for those that have gotten “dirty”. There is no replacement for the knowledge you gain by doing it the real way. I have only listened to one “guru” and that was Carlton Sheets, selling his No Money Down programs. I will admit, I never bought the tapes, I actually found them in an abandoned home! HE-HE. I was amazed at how easy it was for him to make millions doing that…(LOL). It always made me wonder, if it’s really that easy to make millions doing that, why did you stop?
I agree completely with Alex when it comes to switching gears and being an author. I have been asked to deliver a 30 minute speech at an investor club in Oklahoma, I did it one time and quickly realized it was not for me. It probably had alot to do with my stupid fear of speaking in front of a large audience…hehe.
Not speaking for everyone, but I really feel those that are on the ground getting dirty, have an unmatched drive for this business and walking away from it, would probably be comparable to a 15 year vet of the NFL, realizing his career is winding down.
I won’t completely knock the books, because it is a very fast way to learn the very very basics of REI, at least the terminology anyway. They will not teach you real world experiences, as we all pointed out, there is only one way to do that!
Have A Great New Year!
John
I think you pay under $4 bucks here for 600 ml…something like that very expensive.
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