I recently attended the National Achievers Congress in Melbourne. Speakers included Donald Trump, Robert Kiysaski, Tony Robbins etc.
One of the speakers was a guy named Steve Clements and he was promoting a Tax Lien seminar for $5,000.00 coming up in Melbourne. The price includes access to a website that provides free access to all the Tax Lien sales lists in America.
What do people recommend regarding learning about Tax Lien investing and what experience have people had with these investments?
Here is the 14 step process from their website. I await your comments.
1 Determine Investment Objective (high interest or acquire property)
2 Determine $ to Invest
3 Select Markets to Invest In
a. Make list of every market you’re already familiar with.
b. Start in the markets that you are already familiar with.
c. Also look into some counties in Georgia and Indiana.
4 Log on to HigginsNationalTaxSaleDirectory.com, or request List from County
(or download from Internet)
a. Send out form letters to counties.
b. Download lists via Ultimate Research Tool (URT).
5 Determine Geographical Areas to Invest In (zip code, school district, property values)
6 Highlight Properties within Your Budget
a. Excel… sort by price.
7 Highlight Properties in Best Areas to Invest In (see #5)
8 Highlight Single Family Residential Only
9 Use my Ultimate Research Tool to Obtain Property Profile (typically available online)
10 Pictures of Property
a. Use my Ultimate Research Tool
b. Online
c. Real estate agent
11 Order Subdivision Maps
12 View Other Homes for Sale in Same Neighborhood (Values)
a. Use my Ultimate Research Tool, or http://www.Realtor.com and other real estate sites
that list homes for sale.
13 Contact Real Estate Agent (Comparative Market Analysis), use my Ultimate Research Tool
a. Best areas to live in.
b. Real estate values.
14 Request Relocation Package (Chamber of Commerce)16 to 35% minimum returns guaranteed by the government plus the possibility of getting unencumbered property for no more than the cost of the rates and foreclosing fees is what the seminar presenter promises. Your thoughts?
James_Johnson wrote:16 to 35% minimum returns guaranteed by the government plus the possibility of getting unencumbered property for no more than the cost of the rates and foreclosing fees is what the seminar presenter promises. Your thoughts?Like all things real estate related and that are going to cost you money to join the seminar or training session there will be a handful of people that can pull this off. the information company makes a killing selling what is basically public information.
These same seminars have been sold for the last 30 years in the US.
Lots of work and luck. depending on if you actually attend a sale or bid on line. The live ones I have been to are crowded with locals that have been doing it for years. and the bids are basically handed out very very quickly little chance to really know what your bidding on.
also in practice if a property has any value at all some local will bid down the interest rate that is paid to under 7 % or so.
Go to http://www.bidforassets.com and follow some of the sales on line this will be a free way to go through the learning curve and see if TAx Lien investing is something you want to do.
Other Data point
Rarely does one end up owning the property. For the simple reason that you need a superior court judge to issue you a deed and they are very reluctant to do that knowing that some person or family has just lost their property for next to nothing, if the owner of the property shows up the judge will do everything in their power to save the property for the owner, and if its single family owner occ. you can be virtually certain the judge is not going to give you a deed to those peoples house that you paid 200 bucks for.Go to E bay and buy any one of the tax lien course's used for maybe 50 bucks start there.
Hope that helps.
Hi James,
As a tax lien investing specialist and trainer I think you are being slightly mislead. Some people make it sound like you can invest anywhere in the US online without coming here. That is simply not true. Only a few states have online tax sales and the 2 states you mentioned Georgia and Indiana do not have online tax sales. Indiana does have only 4 counties that just this year conducted online tax sales but for all the other counties in that state you have to show up in person to bid. Yes they are internet tax sales but you have to use their computers, you cannot bid from from your own computer. Also Georgia is a redeemable deed, which means that the price of the deed is bid up and there is more of a chance that you can foreclose on the property, in which case you will need someone to rehab, and manage the property for you.
Another misunderstanding that people have from these seminars is that they misinterpret the words "government guaranteed," that these gurus use so flippantly. It does not mean that you are guaranteed to get paid on a tax lien, no one guarantees that you will get paid. What is guaranteed is the interest rate. The only thing that guarantees that you will get paid is the property thus due diligence is very important. Quite frankly I would not trust aerial maps or comps from websites like Realtor.com or Zillow.com.
I am not familiar with HigginsNationalTaxSaleDirectory.com so I cannot comment on that, but most of these resources only provide the tax sale lists from the county and you have to pay for the enhanced lists, which are the lists that you need in order to do your due diligence on tax sale properties, and these lists can be quite expensive. I do not know if that is the case with this particular tool or if get a certain amount of enhanced lists for free each month.
Another thing that you may not have been made aware of is the competition for these liens. This is big business and when you are only bidding on residential single family homes as they suggest you are in competition with with big business as well as all of the other investor who want the same thing. In some of the online tax sales last year there were a few thousand bids on one property!
I do not want to discourage you from buying tax liens, I think it is a great way to invest your money at high return without the risk of the stock market. I just think that there are better ways for foreigners to do it without paying $5000 to learn how and without having to jump through all of hoops of setting up an LLC, getting a US bank acount, finding contacts in the US, etc. For my foreign subscribers and clients I suggest that they invest in a US tax lien investing fund or with a tax lien agent. It will cost them a lot less than $5000 and they will have experts doing the work for them. All they need is to have a US tax ID number and all the work is done for them.
By the way I don't think that luck is involved you just have to know what you're doing and Bid4Assets only does tax deed sales – not tax lien sales.
taxlienlady wrote:Hi James,…………………………..For my foreign subscribers and clients I suggest that they invest in a US tax lien investing fund or with a tax lien agent. It will cost them a lot less than $5000 and they will have experts doing the work for them. All they need is to have a US tax ID number and all the work is done for them.
By the way I don't think that luck is involved you just have to know what you're doing and Bid4Assets only does tax deed sales – not tax lien sales.
Hi taxlienlady,
I am willing to explore this venture, where do we start. It is a very new concept for me.Tax liens are not that easy to acquire. They sound very attractive but you must do your research and learn about them. I am sure Steve McKnight can point you in the right direction. I have bought tax liens in Arizona, some have redeemed and they do work but they are definitely NOT a quick get rich strategy. Every county is different and have different rules. Some counties only have deeds and some no liens at all. Florida is a very good county to buy from but for the foreign investor, difficult to get at the moment. Liens are only available by online auction during one month per year. Florida liens auctions are in May but you can buy over the counter in June/July. Arizona are in January/February. I tried to buy liens in Florida this year but failed with my bidding. Majority sold for 2-3%, NOT 18%.
taxlienlady wrote:Hi James,As a tax lien investing specialist and trainer I think you are being slightly mislead. Some people make it sound like you can invest anywhere in the US online without coming here. That is simply not true. Only a few states have online tax sales and the 2 states you mentioned Georgia and Indiana do not have online tax sales. Indiana does have only 4 counties that just this year conducted online tax sales but for all the other counties in that state you have to show up in person to bid. Yes they are internet tax sales but you have to use their computers, you cannot bid from from your own computer. Also Georgia is a redeemable deed, which means that the price of the deed is bid up and there is more of a chance that you can foreclose on the property, in which case you will need someone to rehab, and manage the property for you.
Another misunderstanding that people have from these seminars is that they misinterpret the words "government guaranteed," that these gurus use so flippantly. It does not mean that you are guaranteed to get paid on a tax lien, no one guarantees that you will get paid. What is guaranteed is the interest rate. The only thing that guarantees that you will get paid is the property thus due diligence is very important. Quite frankly I would not trust aerial maps or comps from websites like Realtor.com or Zillow.com.
I am not familiar with HigginsNationalTaxSaleDirectory.com so I cannot comment on that, but most of these resources only provide the tax sale lists from the county and you have to pay for the enhanced lists, which are the lists that you need in order to do your due diligence on tax sale properties, and these lists can be quite expensive. I do not know if that is the case with this particular tool or if get a certain amount of enhanced lists for free each month.
Another thing that you may not have been made aware of is the competition for these liens. This is big business and when you are only bidding on residential single family homes as they suggest you are in competition with with big business as well as all of the other investor who want the same thing. In some of the online tax sales last year there were a few thousand bids on one property!
I do not want to discourage you from buying tax liens, I think it is a great way to invest your money at high return without the risk of the stock market. I just think that there are better ways for foreigners to do it without paying $5000 to learn how and without having to jump through all of hoops of setting up an LLC, getting a US bank acount, finding contacts in the US, etc. For my foreign subscribers and clients I suggest that they invest in a US tax lien investing fund or with a tax lien agent. It will cost them a lot less than $5000 and they will have experts doing the work for them. All they need is to have a US tax ID number and all the work is done for them.
By the way I don't think that luck is involved you just have to know what you're doing and Bid4Assets only does tax deed sales – not tax lien sales.
"""""
What type of return does your fund generate? I have competed with funds at various sales and its certainly a very highly tuned operation. and most of the sales I have been too in various counties and states, if the property was one that an investor or group wanted to own at some point the interest rate was bid way down to 5% or less. I think this is the item that is missing from those selling the hype and the 5k come and learn programs. This is not a new concept people and companies have been doing this for years and years….
And there is no way its guaranteed as this poster explains, many properties are never redeemed and your out your money. There are so many non buildable slivers of land throughout the US that have no value and the tax deeds get traded around, the only ones who win are the counties when they recieve funds on a worthless peice of property.
I suggested bid for assets as for me personally I prefer buying at auctions where I own the property outright and do not have to go through 3 to 5 years of following it and continually buying the next semesters tax deeds to have a chance to quiet title, ( which again I think is tough if you have any one protesting the sale).. Some states have a 1 year redemention. However CA doe not I have bought many there and resold the properties as soon as my tax deed was recorded. But again we did it for a living. And I saw many folks buy worthless properties and waste there money, there is a whole group of people that buy these cheap worthless properties then sell them on contract to unsuspecting foreign investors, primarily Chineese. As for Hey 5k they can tell their family they own a peice of the US.
If you go to bid for assets and look at the up coming sale in Lake county CA. were I did most of my work for 30 years you will see a spectacular lake front property coming up for 900k or so. That property was and could be a nice development in the future.
Any good feedback from this poster who it seems is in the day to day.
WOW!!!! I now have EXACTLY what you need to learn more about this topic…this post might even be removed given how exclusive this information is that I am about to reveal….
I have been provided with Secret exclusive Donald Trump and Tax Lien video footage + Lots more which is at the website below.
MY specific recommendation is that you do NOT NOT NOT try to sign up to any advertised seminars because they are all overpriced by $5K and you are not allowed to sign up unless you went to the seminar. Nevertheless if you click the link below and click on ‘Steve Clements’ you will be able to see an excerpt of the exact seminar I saw. You can then provide comments on what he says.
I would appreciate your comments. Here is the link just click ‘Steve Clements’. Do NOT NOT NOT sign up. Just comment on the information.
Website here:
Donald Trump, Tony Robbins, Robert Kiyosaki also have videos flogging seminars.
They removed the website. I will try again
nationalachieverscongress.com.au/tv/melbourne
Just go to E bay and buy a used course on tax lien investing in the US for 50 dollars and have it mailed to you.
that will give you all the same info. this stuff has been talked about written about over and over and over through out economic cycles. these companies selling this info for these large investments are in the Info business period.
Trump is only in it because there are huge dollar returns selling info that cost them next to nothing to put together and then hire super slick presenters and get you all hyped up and you gladly part with your money.
Or go to Amazon and find a book there are many of them.
hmmm.. yeah I've read some real estate investing books myself, and some have mentioned tax liens in the USA. It seemed very interesting, but I was totally clueless about what to do next. I think the difficult thing is that we're based in Australia – and I think it's important to go to USA to check it out for actually doing it.
It's not that hard. I did Tommy's course and then bought some in a Florida auction. I think my returns ranged from around 7%-16%. I also bought an OTC one at 18%. OTC is the easiest way to get a good return (at least for Florida ones). I will buy more now I have my US bank account set up. If you follow Steve/Tommy's advice is pretty easy to buy liens that are good value (= property has high value, low existing liens, etc.). I'm not sure why taxlienlady thinks you need to buy enhanced lists – I thought the lists from the county website were fine (all free). I certainly wouldn't pay $5K when Tommy's course was only $1K!
OTOH, property may return more than the liens, and quicker, so we'll see how the next few months goes
nateb,
can you elaborate, you bought tax liens recently and they already paid Off….?
has everyone paid off or are there still ones outstanding,
As I have done this over the years. And have not reconciled my return because I only dabbled at it out of curiosity maybe invested 50k to 100k… I have gotten some pay offs then I lose track of them and some have never paid off and probably never will.
I think with the volume at the tax sale its near impossible to really identify and pick specific properties. When the sales are taking place as a practical matter the taxing authority is selling them every 5 seconds and you just do not have time to react. Plus the local guys are going to get preferrential treatment at least thats what I experinced. OTC of course is different thats just plain crap shoot.
JLH
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