My wife and I were going to do a property development but have decided to go a little slower and learn the reno world first. We have NEVER renovated and have just been reading and researching as much as possible.
I am looking at a property that does not really need strutural renovations but needs a LARGE amount of costmetic work. With our loan, the house is on the market for $300k and we have $50k deposit & $50k for renos (saved form selling our investment unit), would it be best to borrow the full $300k amount and use the $50k of "the banks" money or borrow $250k and use our $50k on the deposit & $50k of our own money?
The place is currently rented for $365per week & is in the Central Coast (NSW).
Any helpshortcutsloan advicetax advice would be very much appreciated to total newbies.
Does anyone have any renovation "experts" they recommend? I was looking at Cherie Barber but her products are $8k! We really need direction and help though, so if need be I would join a place (just $8k is huge)
Cherie Barber is a great product, has great experience, and provides a support network by forums dedicated to renovations. She also has a telephone support system to help you out with your renovations along the way. Another person to check out is Dean Parker from Property Systems. There are not too many renovators at the moment on the market (Brisbane real estate market)who are trading stock. If you have a look at a bunch of renovations that we have done, go to our website listed below. In the property acquisition aspect, our motto is 'we make our money when we buy.' In buying extremely well, we make up for any mistakes made along the way. In relation to the mechanics of the renovation, Dean Parker and Cherie Barber have excellent products to help you. We identify the top three selling agents in the area when we sell. We look at hard-core numbers and not what the agent says or promises. Typically, the top agent will sell 3 to 4 times as much, or faster than the average agent. Case in point, the other day the top agency in Deception Bay in Queensland sold 29 properties in a given period compared to a nearest rival who had sold 7 properties during that same period (that is a bit extreme).
If you have personal debts (PPOR mortgage etc) use the $50K to pay them. They are not tax deductable. However anything you spend on the IP will be.
What sort of renos are you talking about? $50K is one hell of a reno if there are no structural changes.
We typically spend $12-15K on a full reno. New kitchen, bathroom, paint, carpet, polish floors. But we do a lot of the work ourselves.
Is it near where you live? You could project manage and hire tradies. I can't see that paying for a course would necessarily be of much help. I'll project manage it for $8K.
What sort of renos are you talking about? $50K is one hell of a reno if there are no structural changes.
We typically spend $12-15K on a full reno. New kitchen, bathroom, paint, carpet, polish floors. But we do a lot of the work ourselves.
Is it near where you live? You could project manage and hire tradies. I can't see that paying for a course would necessarily be of much help. I'll project manage it for $8K.
I agree with Catalyst – $50k spent on cosmetic renos for a $300k IP seems excessive. Depending on whether you carry out most of the work yourself – I would try to limit your expenses to around the $10k – $15k mark. We recently carried out a similar reno to what you’ve described in south Canberra and got away with spending about $7k – this included new carpet throughout (bunnings), new paint throughout, refaced kitchen, new blinds (ordered online from overseas) and a tidy up of the yards. Next month it will be externally rendered which will add about $5k to the bill – so all up, for $12k we’ve transformed the property completely and have added a fair bit of value as well.
If you are looking for a 'how to' product Dean and Elise Parkers kit is pretty good.
Other than that, some of my tips would be
Pinch the real estate agents tradies, such as plumber, electrician, handyman. They will generally be cheap reliable and will know where to get cheap materials etc. Let them know who you are, that the agency gave you their number etc so they know you are serious.
Get the agent through and ask them what they think needs doing. You may be thinking of changing something which may not need it.
Cosmetic, means cosmetic. Paint, carpet, light fittings, gardens etc. Don't do anything that you don't have to.
Patch it if you can't afford to replace it, and always think 'can I cheap on this?' Yes on plain white tiles in a bathroom, no on doing the wiring yourself
We are almost at the end of our first one (we do developing mostly) and so far we are up to about 8 weeks and about $10k but the house hadn't been touched in maybe 40 years So I'm pretty happy with how we are going. I am getting tired of painting too!
thanks for all your tips. I think the $50k is cause I don’t know where to get materials – I am in the central coast nsw. how do you get a kitchen so cheap? even a cheap one I look at it is $12k. I will never, ever paint ceilings again, but happy to paint the rest of the place. Is there like a quick checklist you guys have at all?
The place I am looking at is 40yrs old, is only in average condition, termite damage, borer damage – house is ok until you start to have a real look, some water damage. I am thinking the risk may not be worth this one. that is why I really wish I knew someone or got one of these courses so I can get some help I am sort of handy – not useless, but my dad is very handy so we are thinking to try and do as much as we can ourselves.
Flat pack kitchen from Bunnings, Flat pack laundry trough from Bunnings, all in one bathroom vanity from Bunnings, misc materials Bunnings, Plants Bunnings lol Customer of the year here Mitre 10 in regional areas are ok and Home Hardware store in regional areas as well. Find the handyman, ask him for quotes and then ask him where he buys his materials from, then go there and have a look.
Haha – yep, the place has it all. I can go 12 months without stepping foot into one but as soon as we start renovating a property – my life becomes loan writing and trips to bunnings.
I really don't think you will make much profit if you spend 10k on your house. Wombat you are right, good kitchen with stone and appliances will cost you 12k. If you start using flat pack kitchens, and painting yourself even though you never did it before, you are wasting your time and money.
My tip. Buy cheapest house in the best area, and spend at least 50k and you will make 100k back.
I've just finished one reno, i spent 73k and i made 120k profit.
Wombat you are right, good kitchen with stone and appliances will cost you 12k. If you start using flat pack kitchens, and painting yourself even though you never did it before, you are wasting your time and money.
Depends on the value and location of the property. There are certain properties where an affordable flat-pack will suffice and there are others where a more expensive kitchen would be better suited.
But, if I spent $128k buying the whole house, I think spending $50k on it would be a bit of a waste of money. In the area I'm doing mine, a flat pack Bunnings kitchen and fresh paint (who cares who did it) and some new bathroom bits such as putting in a tub ($145) makes me about $30-$50k on a $10-12k input. Smaller profit but smaller input too.
If I was doing a reno in a $500k area I would be spending $50k and not doing the painting myself, horses for courses.
Flat pack kitchen from Bunnings, Flat pack laundry trough from Bunnings, all in one bathroom vanity from Bunnings, misc materials Bunnings, Plants Bunnings lol Customer of the year here Mitre 10 in regional areas are ok and Home Hardware store in regional areas as well. Find the handyman, ask him for quotes and then ask him where he buys his materials from, then go there and have a look.
D
How about IKEA, we used them after looking at Bunnings, IKEA looked more expensive, a better finish and the soft closing doors & drawers are brilliant, spent just over 6k then lashed out for granite because of the savings me made (our own home) The only downside for us was living 9 hours away from IKEA, going there & grabbing all the flat pack & wheeling 6 trolleys to the counter took a full day, it was then sent on transport to our front door, once fitted thou it was worth the effort for such a lovely kitchen, now if we only lived closer! Next reno will be Bunnings thou, only cause there closer, 200ks east or 80ks west.
Wombat clearly stated that his property is 300k, so giving him poor advices will send him bankrupt very soon. I would just add that no house in Australia is the same, and no area is the same, so you really have to do your research, what to change and how much to spend.
Advices like 'go to bunnings and buy some paint and flat pack kitchen and make 50k' dont work for every house.
Your advice was also quite general, being to "buy the cheapest house in the best area, and spend at least $50k and you will make $100k back".
w0mbat was after advice on renovating courses and where to get materials. There are alternatives such as having local builders build kitchens or to get quotes from them on project managing the whole renovation.
A general rule of thumb (that I've been told is 10% spend on the actual renovation, and that you should be looking for a 10% profit (minimum) for that time and money.
It really does depend on the house, the area and what you have access to. It's also about doing your research and asking tradespeople and real estate agents about how much things will cost and what resale values are.
I don't know whether anyone has looked at the better quality kitchens from Bunnings but you can get stone bench tops and a whole kitchen with nicer doors is a lot less than 12k.
I'm not telling anyone to spend 10k on a renovation, I am saying to spend an amount of money that is appropriate. I also never said 'buy flat pack, make a profit' I listed the lthngs that I had bought at Bunnings and was giving an example of what I was doing currently.
Good luck w0mbat, I hope that you have gleaned from this that it isn't as easy as everyone makes out, people will give you different advice, but it is worth looking into more.
Wombat clearly stated that his property is 300k, so giving him poor advices will send him bankrupt very soon.
Hi Veseli
With all due respect – that comment just makes no sense. In a previous post you said "Buy cheapest house in the best area, and spend at least 50k and you will make 100k back."
I think if any comments are going to place anyone in financial hardship, it's comments like those.
This is an open forum, with people offering varying opinions. What works for one person might not work for the next and vice versa. We can only offer opinions based on our experiences. You've had a great experience via expensive renovations whereby others have had a great experience with more affordable renovations. Neither is right or wrong – just different ways of adding value to a property. It's up to the OP to decide which way is more suitable to his/her needs.