All Topics / Creative Investing / Help with lease option contractdoing the paperwork correctly

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  • Profile photo of kerry.simpsonkerry.simpson
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    @kerry.simpson
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 13

    Hi fellow investors I need help putting my paperwork together correctly I am doing a sandwich lease in Brisbane and hopefully can get all the paperwork I need togetherr before Friday I would use a solicitor if I could but can't it truelly is a no money down deal…..lol

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Only solicitors can prepare legal documents for others such as contracts. You could do it yourself, but you are running a huge risk. Imagine if you get everything in place and then go to exercise your option only to find the otherside doesn't have to honor it because it of a gaping big loophole which you were aware of.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of kerry.simpsonkerry.simpson
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    @kerry.simpson
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    I agree with you terry although dozens don't use a solicitor for an option to purchase  and am prepared to take that risk what could really happen I could end up with buyers deposit some spread maybe lose the backend profit….and lose the house back to the owners…

    I could do a heads of agreement with sellers, one simple page of an option to purchase the property as well  outlining that  I will not commence until I have my buyer and allowed to advertise the property giiving me 30 days and collect a processing fee from buyers to pay for some of my solicitors cost which will be 1400 or should I shop around for another solicitor what would you do in this situation.

     

    Profile photo of Paul DobsonPaul Dobson
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    @pauldobson
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    Hi Kerry

    I've couldn't agree more with Terry.  We've been running our Vendor Finance business since 2003.  I listened to a well known educator and once did my own paperwork for a VF transaction.  As murphy's law would have it, it stuffed up and cost a lot in lawyer's fees to fix.  It happened early in our VF business and I haven't tried to do legal paperwork myself since.  What I do do though, is get the purchaser to pay for the drawing up of the paperwork.

    Do what you do best, i.e. put together transactions and use your specialist professionals to make sure the paperwork has the best chance of working for you the way you want it to.

    Cheers,  Paul

    Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
    http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    An alternative way to finance your home.

    Profile photo of kerry.simpsonkerry.simpson
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    @kerry.simpson
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    So would you do a heads of agreement to seal the deal and then get the buyer to cough up my legals?
    I was thinking of using a one page option to purchase offer agreement to hold the property for 30 days so I can advertise and find a buyer and during this time have the paperwork done by tom and hopefully get the monies together to pay for tom ie: processing fee from buyer would be some of the cost.

    Can I do this do you think

    Profile photo of Paul DobsonPaul Dobson
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    @pauldobson
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    Hi Kerry

    To provide a tenant/buyer with a lease/option you need to have:
    1.  A lease that gives you the right to sub lease and
    2.  An option for longer than the option you plan to provide.
    Therefore completing a one page call option will not supply you with all you need.

    I'd suggest you secure the property with an appropriate lease/option.  Your solicitor will be able to write up the paperwork so that you only start paying when you have a new buyer in place.  You can then take out your costs from the incoming buyer's deposit (up front option fee).

    We don't do back to back lease/options anymore but, if you haven't done one of these before, I'd suggest you find an experienced VF'er in your area and offer them a share of the profit to help you through the process by way of a joint venture.  Do however check how many back to back lease/options this experienced VF'er has done before you form the JV.

    They are not easy and about 50% of them fall over.

    Cheers,  Paul

    Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
    http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    An alternative way to finance your home.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Paul

    You should also have a contract of sale attached to the option too I think. Otherwise the terms of the sale will be unclear.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of kerry.simpsonkerry.simpson
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    @kerry.simpson
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    I have thought about it and yes I want ot use a solicitor so I am assuming I think that I will need to have something in writing before a go spending money on drawing up a contract
    I presume this would be a heads of agreement outlining what will take place and an offer of an option to purchase the property under the assumption that I will be onselling  the property and giving me the authority to advertise the property for sale with signs and online and taking prospective clients through to look at the property and stating if not found anybody in a reasonable timeframe they may null and void the option before paying for the solicitors costs.
    Is this suitable to do or would you pay for the legals and if they turn around and say no just wear the expense….? confused

    Profile photo of kerry.simpsonkerry.simpson
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    @kerry.simpson
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    sorry just read your other post and have gone and sort out other experienced VFers in my area or even at a distance but none have come to the party yet and trust me have asked at least 6 to 7 of them some have done between 5 to 30 deals was highly reccomended to conact yourself but something happened and yet still waiting for the return call ( rang a few times must have been too busy like the rest)
    believe you me I am looking for that person to mentor me on a tight budget i am more than happy to do all of the work if someone would help me through
    I am glad that you are here for me on this forum, I have found Rick Ottons froum today as well, I now have my first deal which I believe will be an easy one I am at the take over the house stage never done before and willing to learn anymore than I can I know that 60% can come back I am very aware of that this is not something I am taking lightly as I have chosen this industry and do my best to be good at it….
    This is not an overnight hobbie for me. this is the start of my financial future and business in the VF industry

    Profile photo of Paul DobsonPaul Dobson
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    @pauldobson
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    Post Count: 1,196

    Hi Kerry

    First up, thanks Terry, correct as usual  ;-)

    Kerry, it sounds like you are talking with some people who want to sell their property and are willing to consider selling it with VF.  This situation may lend itself to a back to back lease/option but the double set of paperwork and usual short term, I find, are not as attractive to a buyer as an Instalment Contract.

    May I suggest you have a look at  http://www.negative2positive.com.au  to get an idea of another strategy for this situation.  Once you've had a read of that site, feel free to give me a call.

    Cheers,  Paul

    Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
    http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    An alternative way to finance your home.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Paul,

    I've never thought about this before, but what would happen if you had an option exerciseable in 1 year. You included a contract of sale with the terms of the purchase. Assume it is NSW. For a contract to be valid (or enforceable) it has to include searches such as a s149 certificate.These certificates expire, I think it is about  months for a s149.

    So what happens? I guess the contract will be valid and binding on the exchange – but the contract would not be entered into until the option is exchanged. But when this happens the certificates would have expired. I suppose the vendor could just order new ones but I am not sure if any problems would arise.

    What do you think?

    Ps. I was walking through Darling Harbour in Sydney and noticed that one of the large water front restaurants had closed down, suddenly and unexpectedly. I did a search and found a case concerning this in the Supreme Court of NSW.

    It appears the person leasing the property had an option to extend the lease another 20 years, but they forgot to give proper notice. The court case was about an email they sent to the landlord where they talked about extending and they argued that this was notice. But the ruling was that it wasn't proper notice because of various reasons – including that they did not word it directly but just mentioned it in passing while writing about other matters.

    The tenant had just completed a $1mil renovation about 4 years earlier. Now they dont have a restuarant!

    It jsut shows that you must be very careful when dealing in options.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Paul DobsonPaul Dobson
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    @pauldobson
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    Hi Terry

    In relation to s149 and those documents required by section 52A (2) (a) of the Act, I believe "Part 4 Options for purchase of residential property", of the Conveyancing (Sale of Land) Regulation 2010, allows the various required documents to be attached at the date of the Option.

    As you mentioned, the Contract does not come into being until it is exchanged.  As it's a new Contract at that point, I believe the vendor would be required to supply the documents required by section 52A (2) (a) of the Act with the contract, i.e. a new up to date set.

    Yes, we too have had people miss the last available "exercise date".  Scary but unlike the restaurant owner we've always let our buyers buy their home.  Can you imagine how quickly the media cameras would be on our door step if we didn't  ;-)

    Cheers,  Paul

    Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
    http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    An alternative way to finance your home.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Thanks Paul.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of kerry.simpsonkerry.simpson
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    @kerry.simpson
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 13

    Hi paul checked out your site and tell me something I know that you need a credit licence to offer sales installment contract and second mortgage carry backs and the buyer has to pay the stamp duty as well
    If they default which the percentages are less likely than under a lease option strategy how can I do that are you offering a JV or something to do the deal….
    So if I was to do this are you suggesting I arrange a JV with my seller to find and secure a buyer who will buy the property under a sales installment contract and using your licence is this correct?

    Profile photo of Paul DobsonPaul Dobson
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    @pauldobson
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 1,196

    Hi Kerry

    In short, yes ;-)  Instead of a set of L/O paperwork between you and the seller and another set of L/O paperwork between you and the new buyer, we've tried to simplify the process by assisting the seller to sell their property with an Instalment Contract.  We accomplish this via a JV between the seller and the holder of the ACL (us).  Then, if there is another party in the transaction, e.g. a VF'er without an ACL, we have another simple, profit sharing JV that splits the profit from the original JV.

    This allows people to see that the requirements of the Australian Credit Licence aren't onerous and the Instalment Contract is quite straight forward.  It also encourages VF'ers to get their own ACL and open their VF business to all the available VF strategies.  See  http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au/home/vfi-products/credit-representative-program/

    Cheers,  Paul

    Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
    http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    An alternative way to finance your home.

    Profile photo of kerry.simpsonkerry.simpson
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    @kerry.simpson
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 13

    Checked it out sounds great although I am in the process of achieving a credit licence you see my husband is a credited mortgage broker with his cert v1 in financial services he has been one for 10 years, and is about to operate as a broker from home again I am wanting and needing to get started with as little as expense as possible so I have now decided to go and do some wholesale deals to get some money behind me to pya for solicitors costs in my deals.

    The next meeting on the gold coast is this week am I correct, could you let me know

    Profile photo of Paul DobsonPaul Dobson
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    @pauldobson
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 1,196

    Hi Kerry

    The Gold Coast meeting details are at:
    http://www.vendorfinance.asn.au/meetings-and-membership.html

    Cheers,  Paul

    Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
    http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    An alternative way to finance your home.

    Profile photo of colinnewlandcolinnewland
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    @colinnewland
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 128

    Do I need a Certificate IV in Financial Services (Finance/Mortgage Broking) to do Lease/Rent/Option deals?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Hi Colin,

    I don't think lease options fall under the NCCP as they are not defined as credit. So no licence needed,

    Installment contracts would be credit and you would need to be licenced – but even then if you had 2 years experience I don't think a cert IV is needed yet – but will be the minimum requirement in a couple of years. (just going from memory here).

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Paul DobsonPaul Dobson
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    @pauldobson
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 1,196

    Hi Colin

    As Terry says, you don't need a Certificate IV in Financial Services (Finance/Mortgage Broking) to offer a property with a Lease and an Option (Lease/Option, Rent To Own, Rent To Buy, etc).  Nor do you require an Australian Credit Licence (ACL).

    Any future requirement to have the Cert IV would probably be part of a requirement to have an ACL to undertake Lease/Option transactions on residential real estate.

    My personal opinion is that Lease/Options on residential real estate will eventually be regulated by the National Consumer Credit Protection Act.  This opinion is based on some conversations with ASIC people (off the record) and a couple of similar rulings in VCAT and QCAT on the subject.  These rulings occurred in the two Tribunals when the Chairperson of each Tribunal found out the tenant had an option on the property, as well as a Residential Lease.

    With this discovery the Chairperson declared that the intent of the Lease/Option was home ownership and therefore the Lease/Option was an Instalment Contract and the matter could not be heard in the Tribunal and should go to a higher court.  In both cases the VF'er didn't take it to the higher court, i.e. they settled with the tenant/buyers.

    Cheers,  Paul

    Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
    http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    An alternative way to finance your home.

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