All Topics / Legal & Accounting / Tax rules on leaving savings in a redraw account

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  • Profile photo of Woody86Woody86
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    @woody86
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 30

    Hi
    I currently have 12k in savings and wanted to leave it in my redraw account of my home loan for my investment property to save interest. I read an article in API recently explaining that in may cause some of the loan to not be tax deductible once I redraw it out. I am predominately only going to redraw it out for investment purposes but if i redrew the money out for personal use would there be any consequences

    thanks

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Yes, deposit = repaying the loan.
    taking it out = new borrowings.

    Interest on borrowings will only be deductible if  the money is used for investments.

    If you reborrow the $12k you will contaminate your loan and create a mess like this guy https://www.propertyinvesting.com/forums/property-investing/help-needed/4336793?#comment-237756

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of jdufalljdufall
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    @jdufall
    Join Date: 2010
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    Hi

    This is why an offset account is sometimes a better setup than a redraw facility.

    John

    Profile photo of luke86luke86
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    @luke86
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 470

    I would say an offset account is ALWAYS better than a redraw.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Not necessarily Luke

    What if you had a $100,000 home loan paid down to $50,000 with $50,000 in the offset account. Net interest = $0

    Now you want to invest $50,000 in an investment. You have 2 choices:
    1) take $50,000 cash from the offset, or
    2) take $50,000 as borrowings from the redraw.

    Which would you choose?

    I would chose to borrow the money, ie option 2.

    If you chose option 1, then the interest on the home loan would go up (ie the loan balance would be $50,000 and nothing in the offset). This interest will not be deductible.

    If you chose option 2, then the interest on the home loan would be the same as Nil. But the interest on the $50,000 portion borrowed to invest would be deductible.

    The net result is that the overall interest is the same, but the deductions have been increased (by approx $3,500 in this eg – possibly a saving of $1000+ per year).

    Of course, it would be better to set up another split on the home loan to keep the private and investment portions totally separate.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of luke86luke86
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    @luke86
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    Terry I agree, but untill you decide that you want to purchase another investment you should leave this in an offset account. I have recently done exactly as you said (organised a $30k subloan on my PPOR loan, paid it down in full using money from my offset account and then redrew the money to use towards a deposit on a property). But I think you should always keep your money in as offset account in case you decide to use the money to buy a different PPOR, or car, or holiday in the future instead of a new IP.

    Luke.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Yes, until it is needed it should be kept in an offset account saving you non-deductible interest.

    I guess the main point is not to use offset funds for investments directly. (unless you have no non deductible debt)>

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of amsaini15amsaini15
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    @amsaini15
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 64
    Terryw wrote:
    Yes, until it is needed it should be kept in an offset account saving you non-deductible interest.

    I guess the main point is not to use offset funds for investments directly. (unless you have no non deductible debt)>

    Terry, I understand that we should keep funds in offset account which I would be doing with my new loan setup. I have a question about what to do (where to get funds for deposit) if we plan to buy new
    a) PPOR (turning this into IP) or
    b)  IP

    As per above reply from Luke, it seems there are different ways to use funds to pay for deposit of the new (PPOR or IP). I was under the impression, I can withdraw funds out of offset to pay for either PPOR or IP and will not loos tax deductiblility if renting out current PPOR.

    Thanks

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Money in an offset account is cash.

    So if you use it to pay for new PPOR then this can be good as it results in a lower non deductible loan.

    However, if you use cash to pay for an investment then this is not so good if you have non deductible debt. You will end up paying more interest for non deductible debt and less interest on deductible debt = more tax payable.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of amsaini15amsaini15
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    @amsaini15
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 64

    So Terry, to arrange funds for IP purchase, are you suggesting the best possible way is by refinancing existing PPOR  and then redraw funds for IP deposit?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Yes it would be better to borrow funds for the investment.

    eg. Imagine you had a $1,000,000 home loan with $200,000 in the offset. This means you pay interest on $800,000.

    If you took the $200,000 and used it for investment then you would now be paying interest on $1,000,000.
    None of the interest would be deductible.

    Instead, if you set up a LOC on your home for $200,000 then you would be able to borrow the $200,000 to invest. Your home loan would still be $1,000,000 and you would still have $200,000 in the offset. So you would be paying interest on $800,000 which wouldn't be deductible.

    Net result is still interest is being paid on $1,000,000 but 20% of it would be deductible.

    If you don't have enough equity in the home then it would be worth taking the $200,000 from the offset and paying it off the homeloan and then setting up a separate loan and reborrow it again. A bit of mucking around, but it would save you a fortune in tax over the years.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of amsaini15amsaini15
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    @amsaini15
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 64

    Thanks a lot Terry. The whole Investor community owe you a lot :)

    That was very precise, to the point advise with a excellent example.  I generally dont like/understamd LOCs. So when I will plan to buy IP, I would go with the pay off home loan with the offset, re-borrow upto 80%/90% (depending upon requirement) and use the increase to setup new loan account and use the offset now for deposit on IP. I think I have got it right this time :)

    Now I understand if I would have used $200,000 from offset to pay for IP purchase, I would be paying interest on $1,000,000 but being a original PPOR loan, none would be deductible.

    Thanks Terry. Much appreciated.

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