All Topics / Legal & Accounting / Discretionary Trust Deeds

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
  • Profile photo of CheapAtHalfThePriceCheapAtHalfThePrice
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    @cheapathalftheprice
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 4
    April 13, 2011 - 6:52 am

    Hi All,

    What are the extra clauses that experienced investors have put into their Discretionary Trust Deeds that are above and beyond what you would find on a standard deed from cleardocs or law central?

    I've just bought/read Trust Magic by Dale Gatherum-Goss (revised in Feb 2011) and would highly recommend it to anybody looking at trusts.  Worth every cent.  (Family Trusts by R E Renton was also good.  As was Saving Tax on Your Investment Property by Noel Whittaker and Julia Hartman.)

    In his book, Dale describes a clause in one of his trusts is:

    The ability to pay income to the parent or guardian of any such beneficiary – for example towards maintenance, education advancement or to the benefit of the beneficiary

    So. . . . What other clauses or topics have people included/found useful that are not included in the standard internet deeds?

    Thanks,

    Robert

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    April 15, 2011 - 4:41 am

    There is a very expensive book out there called something like "Drafting wills and trusts" which is a good read. It outlines the anatomy of a deed and explains each clause in a deed and what it is for etc. Costs about $350 but I think there is a CD included too which contains draft deeds and different clauses. This book is available at Sydney Uni library if you have access.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Rob G.Rob G.
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    @rob-g.
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 70
    April 15, 2011 - 10:25 am
    CheapAtHalfThePrice wrote:
    Hi All,

    What are the extra clauses that experienced investors have put into their Discretionary Trust Deeds that are above and beyond what you would find on a standard deed from cleardocs or law central?

    I've just bought/read Trust Magic by Dale Gatherum-Goss (revised in Feb 2011) and would highly recommend it to anybody looking at trusts.  Worth every cent.  (Family Trusts by R E Renton was also good.  As was Saving Tax on Your Investment Property by Noel Whittaker and Julia Hartman.)

    In his book, Dale describes a clause in one of his trusts is:

    The ability to pay income to the parent or guardian of any such beneficiary – for example towards maintenance, education advancement or to the benefit of the beneficiary

    So. . . . What other clauses or topics have people included/found useful that are not included in the standard internet deeds?

    Thanks,

    Robert

    State Trust Laws usually include these clauses where a deed is silent.

    Randomly tacking in clauses that seem like a good idea in isolation can have unintended consequences.

    That is why it pays in the long run to actually have an interview with a qualified lawyer to custom draft the deed to suit current and anticipated scenarios including estate planning etc.

    Cheers,

    Rob

    Profile photo of st81hp79st81hp79
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    @st81hp79
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 35
    April 18, 2011 - 3:28 am
    Terryw wrote:
    There is a very expensive book out there called something like "Drafting wills and trusts" which is a good read. It outlines the anatomy of a deed and explains each clause in a deed and what it is for etc. Costs about $350 but I think there is a CD included too which contains draft deeds and different clauses. This book is available at Sydney Uni library if you have access.

    Sorry for dropping in…

    Hi Terry,
    I am interested in the book you have recommend on the above post.
    I would appreciate if can  get back to me on who the author is? and the exact  title of the book? cause I have been browsing on the internet and came a cross a few with the same title " Drafting wills and Trusts" with all different prices depending on the author.

    Thanks
    st81hp79

    Profile photo of CheapAtHalfThePriceCheapAtHalfThePrice
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    @cheapathalftheprice
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 4
    April 18, 2011 - 6:11 am

    Hi All,

    Thanks Terryw – I'll check that book out as I would like to learn more.

    Rob G –  I will stay away from writing my own!  Recipe for disaster if I did write anything, but more knowledge would help me ask relevant questions/check what is written for me.

    The reason for my question was to try and get a feeling of whether to use an off the shelf trust or whether a decent accountant/lawyer combo actually adds value to a trust deed. 

    I appreciate the time take for your replies,

    Thanks again,
    Robert.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213
    April 18, 2011 - 12:32 pm

    Accountants cannot draft legal documents unless they are also solicitors. They can advise you on structuring and who to take what role etc in terms of tax. Solicitors can draft documents such as deeds or contracts, as well as give legal advice, but very few solcitors do their own trust deed drafting because of the complexity involved and the time involved. Most would use some sort of precedent document and then modify it by adding or amended clauses.
     

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Post Count: 16,213
    April 20, 2011 - 12:47 pm
    st81hp79 wrote:
    Terryw wrote:
    There is a very expensive book out there called something like "Drafting wills and trusts" which is a good read. It outlines the anatomy of a deed and explains each clause in a deed and what it is for etc. Costs about $350 but I think there is a CD included too which contains draft deeds and different clauses. This book is available at Sydney Uni library if you have access.

    Sorry for dropping in…

    Hi Terry,
    I am interested in the book you have recommend on the above post.
    I would appreciate if can  get back to me on who the author is? and the exact  title of the book? cause I have been browsing on the internet and came a cross a few with the same title " Drafting wills and Trusts" with all different prices depending on the author.

    Thanks
    st81hp79

    Sorry  am behind in my emails. just catching up now.

    I own a copy of the book, but I am away from home so am not sure who the author is. Kessler rings a bell. A bitish QC

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213
    April 20, 2011 - 12:51 pm

    Here it is
    http://www.lawbooks.com.au/book/drafting-trusts-and-will-trusts-in-australia.do

    its only $159 – so why not buy 2 copies.

    Drafting Trusts and Will Trusts in Australia

    Author:   Flynn ,  James Kessler
    Publisher:   Law Book Co of Australasia
    Edition:   1
    ISBN:  

    9780455225494

    Pages:   436
    Publication Date:   26 June 2008
    Format:   Paperback

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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