All Topics / Finance / Broker gone mad???

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  • Profile photo of tylon020tylon020
    Participant
    @tylon020
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 23

    Hi guys needs some advice here please……i know it looks like its been discussed to death but that's what we are here for right :)

    I have re-financed a loan for IP and used the equity for this to purchase a another…  the loan product doesn't have an offset account has a redraw facility. P&I loans which I can change to IO.

    Now the fastest way to debt reduction I know is to have surplus funds sitting in an offset account. My questions are –
    1. If I have funds sitting in an offset account – does this reduce my tax deduction??
    2. Which is better tax minimisation or paying the loan off quicker??
    3. Since I dont have an offset account does the redraw work in the same way??? ( i have read in the forum that it has different tax implications i dont think i quite understood it)
    4. what is the best loan structure??? because it seems to me if i aim to reduce the debt then i may be missing out on the tax deduction but if i aim for tax dedeuctions I'll have these loans forever!!

    Can someone please shed some light??

    Profile photo of N@thanN@than
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    @n-than
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 241

    Hi Tylon020

    My understanding of  the following is:

    tylon020 wrote:

    1. If I have funds sitting in an offset account – does this reduce my tax deduction??

    Yes this will reduce your tax deduction as you said you have a P&I loan. So any money in your offset account is effectively money paid off your loan. Hence reducing the Principal amount which is not tax deductible.

    tylon020 wrote:

    2. Which is better tax minimisation or paying the loan off quicker??

    In my opinion this one depends on your goals and your situation. Personally I pay the minimum amount on my IP (IO loan) as I am better off using the extra money to reduce my PPOR loan as this is not tax deductible. If however your IP's are your only loans then it may work in your favour to reduce your loan amount to speed up the amount of equity you have available.
     

    tylon020 wrote:

    3. Since I dont have an offset account does the redraw work in the same way??? ( i have read in the forum that it has different tax implications i dont think i quite understood it)

    I am not sure about this question. Hopefully one of the more experienced guys on here can help you with that. I can't see what the difference would be so I am interested in what they about this one aswell.

    tylon020 wrote:

    4. what is the best loan structure??? because it seems to me if i aim to reduce the debt then i may be missing out on the tax deduction but if i aim for tax dedeuctions I'll have these loans forever!!

    Again this depends on your situation and future goals. Most people I think prefer IO loans on IP's as they only have to pay the bare minimum to hold it and are maximising their tax deduction. This allows them to use those extra funds elsewhere. (Investing of course :)). The aim is that over time the value of your property should increase as well as your rental income until the time comes that you are required to start paying off your principal. In which case you will have a far lower LVR and much higher rent.

    Yes it may seem like you will have these loans forever but as long as you are not having trouble with the repayments now then it should only get easier as time goes on.

    This is just my opinion anyway, I'm sure others on here could give you more of an idea.

    Hope this helps,

    Cheers,

    Nathan
     

    Profile photo of ALF1ALF1
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    @alf1
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 237

    Choosing the right investment loan can prove as difficult as finding the right investment property. Is there any difference between a loan from a bank and a loan from a credit union? Is it worth paying extra for a loan with more features? If you need to borrow a lot of money where should you go?

    The main problem is there are potentially more home loans to choose from than there are investment properties.

    With so much choice it’s hard to know where to begin. However, one thing is for sure – you shouldn't go with the first lender to approve your application. Gone are the days when ` borrowers visited the bank manager cap in hand. Today most lenders are keen to visit you. Borrowers today are in the driver's seat, so take advantage of it!

    Where to begin?

    One way to manage the selection of an investment loan is to use a mortgage broker. Mortgage brokers can do a good job of wading through a wide selection of mortgages to find one that meets your needs. However, if you are happy to leave the selection process to someone else, you need to have a clear understanding of the selection criteria they're using to both eliminate and include lenders. Whether you choose to use a broker or whether you prefer to do-it-yourself, you should spend time defining your needs and preferences.

    What do you want?

    Because there are so many factors differentiating the many loans out there, its a really good idea to consider and list your needs before you set out.

    Questions that every lender will ask you are: –

    How much do you need to borrow?

    What will the loan represent as a proportion of the property value (i.e. the LVR)?

    Are you borrowing for investment or personal purposes?

    How long do you intend borrowing for?

    Are joint incomes required to meet repayments?

    Which State/Territory is the property located?

    You may also have special needs –
    buying the property through a unit trust or company structure, or you could be buying land with a view to building a house.

    Loan Functionality

    Investors should always think about flexibility with their investment finance. Would you like to vary the size of the loan without lots of paperwork? Would you like to vary your repayments? or Do you simply want a no frills loan with the best available rate? Ultimately, the loan structure you choose will determine the flexibility you have.

    So, let’s look at loan structures. Loans can be: –

    Standard Amortising;

    Line of Credit (Equity)

    Amortising Equity; or

    Standard Interest Only

    One way of describing the structure of the loan is the repayment schedule. The repayment schedule is defined by the term of the loan (say 25 years) and the types of payments you make – interest only, or principal plus interest. A traditional principal and interest loan for the purpose of buying the property (and nothing but the property), is known as a Standard Amortising Loan.

    More and more borrowers are taking advantage of the equity in their property by using it as a security to borrow for other purposes. Loans that allow you to use a mortgage for purposes other than investing in property fall into the "Line of Credit" category. These loans don’t have a strict repayment schedule therefore, work best for borrowers who have plenty of self discipline.

    Amortising Equity Loans let you borrow against the equity you have built up against your home. However, each time you change the loan amount, your repayment schedule is reset. You pay principal and interest repayments on the basis of your specified terms. These loans are good for borrowers who have built up equity in their home but like (or need) the repayment discipline that an amortising loan provides.

    If you don’t need to build up equity in a property, you may choose to use an interest only loan. Investors typically use interest only loans to maximise tax deductibility over the life of the loan.

    The problem with assessing a range of opportunities is simply dealing with the large number of variables. This is where understanding your own needs and working with a specialist finance broker comes in handy. Although each of us has unique financial needs, it’s a simple fact that some products on the market have more features than others. If you find a loan that has a mountain of features, chances are you won't be the only person that suits. Similarly, some loans are cheaper than others. If we combine these two ideals and hunt down all the loans with the most features that are amongst the cheapest, we find the best 'value for money' products.

    On top of all this are the multitude of tax implications: depreciation, variation, etc. There are no quick and clearcut answers to your questions and you either must through time and effort learn alot more or refer to a specialist/expert.

    I hope this has been of benefit to you?

    Profile photo of Mick CMick C
    Participant
    @shape
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 1,099

    Good post AFL1.

    tylon020 – ill make this short, simple and in layman terms:) .

    1. Redraw and offset – No real difference in how it works some technical differences but not one that you should worry about…but redraw has less flexibility in that it’s harder to access and shift the money.
    2. From your post, i personally would recommended a loan with an offset account because it sounds like your more comfortable with this and it does have a lot more advantage.
    3. You would want to reduce your debt ASAP for your PPOR and non”taxable debt” – ie personal and car loan…for IP the best structure is too- have an offset account, pay IO …any “surplus” funds goes directly into the offset. Later down the track if you want to purchase another IP or your PPOR you can use this “surplus” fund in your offset as an deposit.
    4. There are 30+ loan structure and advice that i can give you. MY advice- KEEP IT SIMPLE , efficient and one that YOU understand.

    Regards
    Michael

    Mick C | Shape Home Loans
    http://www.shapehomeloans.com.au/
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Same Banks. Better Rates. Served With a Passion.

    Profile photo of Mick CMick C
    Participant
    @shape
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 1,099

    tylon020 – one point i must note if you have an redraw for the IP is that …some accountants can be fussy about you placing extra surplus cash into your IP redraw as the SOLO purpose of this redraw should only be for the IP…ie rent etc…
    If you start transferring your salary and another incomes into the redraw it can become messy for the accountant.

    Offset on the other hand is different. it does not have a set clause for the use.

    So it be a good idea to pop an email to your accountant :)

    Regards
    Michael

    Mick C | Shape Home Loans
    http://www.shapehomeloans.com.au/
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Same Banks. Better Rates. Served With a Passion.

    Profile photo of tylon020tylon020
    Participant
    @tylon020
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 23

    Thanks guys this is great………… I actually don't have any personal debt or own my own home yet so the IP's are the only things really.
    I'm being questioned by my broker/accountant why I want an offset account and its purpose when the interest is a tax deduction. My thinking is I wanna pay the loan down as much as I can. I understand that yet tax minimisation is a good thing but surely not thesole purpose of investing….  I thought I was missing something but this has all been good information.  :)

    Profile photo of ALF1ALF1
    Participant
    @alf1
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 237

    Tylon, make sure you ask your Accountant about Tax Variation (the old 221d) and how it applies to you. It should always form part of one's tax minimisation strategies (if applicable and worthwhile).

    Profile photo of crjcrj
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    @crj
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 618

    When you redraw on a loan you are making a new borrowing and the tax deductibility of that will depend on whether you have used the redraw for investment purposes.  So if you eventually want to buy a PPOR and redraw that borrowing will not be tax deductible.  You would hvae more flexibility with an offset account as withdrawals from the offset are not borrowing

    Profile photo of Investment-MortgagesInvestment-Mortgages
    Member
    @investment-mortgages
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 32

    Not knowing your situation fully, its a bit fuzzy.

    Its not always said very often however it does need some thought, – The current economic climate.

    If the house prices are stagnating it could be worth thinking about P&I.( ever so slightly pay some down)
    If the prices were growing fast you would not hesitate to go IO as the growth in prices with earn you equity and
    increase your wealth.

    In saying that all the posts above are really well said.

    Any thoughts?

    Profile photo of Mick CMick C
    Participant
    @shape
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 1,099

    Matt- your thinking is justifiable and make sense…however it’s an old and simple way of thinking.

    The way i look at IO is…
    1. Repayment is less = better cash flow
    2. Any “extra funds” that “could” have been your principle just transfer it too an offset account = works the same way as P&I – your interest charged on your loan amount is still less by the offset amount

    However this set up of IO with an offset is way more superior then the standard P and I because:
    1. Better control over your tax
    2. Have access to funds instantly – no need to pay for top up or refinance.

    Regards
    Michael

    Mick C | Shape Home Loans
    http://www.shapehomeloans.com.au/
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Same Banks. Better Rates. Served With a Passion.

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