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some valid points and yes i have considered it "my set and forget" to me basically means that i can choose my level of involvement to a certain extent. I am not uneducated with regards to the issues that being a property investor entails. Yes i have been saving madly and i thank you for your concern. i a not sacrificing my "life savings'. to me that is just stupid. I would ensure that i never spend anything that i couldn't afford to lose.
I tell you having 'wasted'20 years and over $150k dealing with the massive issues of my family's failed property investing and management. i feel that the 2 years that i have spent saving for a property in the US is really peanuts.
The thing with me is that if you don't risk there is no reward… I have actually made a living doing jobs that people hate and made money off doing the opposite of what everyone else does… so far so go.
Yes i am in a low income bracket…and yes i would be disappoint if i didn't make any money… but i plan to keep the money in the US for now and keep building up my portfolio over there.
I realise that i may be ranting… sorry for that, but i have heard all the arguments… i don't dismiss them, but i also know that a lot of people's main motivation is fear and the once bitten…never again philosophy.
I have started the ball rolling….
jeff2investUSA wrote:speedy gonzales wrote:Hi Jeff, By all means you are entitled to your opinion on upstate NY…….problem is that as soon as you mention the area you immediately think of Buffalo, Rochester etc. This area saw an influx of Aussie investors a few years back and everybody lost money. The gross returns promised realised into negative net returns and further loss upon sale due to continual frustration. I take your point on board that it is possible sometimes if you have the right team. Also a good point that usually you find the salespeople themselves have never invested their own funds so how could you expect to trust them with yours Where exactly do you recommend in upstate NY out of curiousity ?Hi Speedy Gonzales, Now I know that you are gonna think I am crazy, I am investing in Rochester, the reason being is that I have partnered with some local investors there who have the runs on the board, I agree and they do as well re bad deals done a few years ago by real estate sharks, who took money out of investors, however I have a partner in Denver, very experienced real estate advisor who has a good report on Rochester, no boom or bust steady, good returns, tenanted properties, well run property managment system in place. I would have no problem reccomending Rochester despite it's bad rap. You will never get a huge capital gain on purchasing a property for 50K-60K, but a positive cash flow, I am getting that. The problem with the sunshine states is that a number of years ago speculators came in and purchased properties causing the prices to rise, thats why you see in Florida some houses were $180K a few years ago now selling for $60K, will these properties EVER get back to those prices….don't think so. because they were never worth $180K to start with. Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I have recently bought my 1st in Rochester and so far its been good. The team on the ground is fantastic. A good mate of mine has over 60 properties there and has been investing in Rochester for the past 9 years. No capital growth but his properties are always tenanted and very well managed. I think the you can make money anywere as long as you have a good mastermind team around you.
EngeloEngeloRumora | Ohio Cashflow
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engelo10 wrote:jeff2investUSA wrote:speedy gonzales wrote:Hi Jeff, By all means you are entitled to your opinion on upstate NY…….problem is that as soon as you mention the area you immediately think of Buffalo, Rochester etc. This area saw an influx of Aussie investors a few years back and everybody lost money. The gross returns promised realised into negative net returns and further loss upon sale due to continual frustration. I take your point on board that it is possible sometimes if you have the right team. Also a good point that usually you find the salespeople themselves have never invested their own funds so how could you expect to trust them with yours Where exactly do you recommend in upstate NY out of curiousity ?Hi Speedy Gonzales, Now I know that you are gonna think I am crazy, I am investing in Rochester, the reason being is that I have partnered with some local investors there who have the runs on the board, I agree and they do as well re bad deals done a few years ago by real estate sharks, who took money out of investors, however I have a partner in Denver, very experienced real estate advisor who has a good report on Rochester, no boom or bust steady, good returns, tenanted properties, well run property managment system in place. I would have no problem reccomending Rochester despite it's bad rap. You will never get a huge capital gain on purchasing a property for 50K-60K, but a positive cash flow, I am getting that. The problem with the sunshine states is that a number of years ago speculators came in and purchased properties causing the prices to rise, thats why you see in Florida some houses were $180K a few years ago now selling for $60K, will these properties EVER get back to those prices….don't think so. because they were never worth $180K to start with. Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I have recently bought my 1st in Rochester and so far its been good. The team on the ground is fantastic. A good mate of mine has over 60 properties there and has been investing in Rochester for the past 9 years. No capital growth but his properties are always tenanted and very well managed. I think the you can make money anywere as long as you have a good mastermind team around you.
EngeloSo true , with the right team in place is every thing in real estate ( and property management is huge part) . There are plenty of cheaper markets like Rochester NY that in the USA. Where properties are ridiculous cheap. I am , Charlotte North Carolina( still like pretty houses) though. My investment team was just offered blocks of homes in Buffalo NY. We passed to many potential head aches. Again there are loads of markets for these lower end deals ,but they do come the head aches. With the right team they can minimize head aches. There will be higher turn over of tenants,Loss rental income , more repairs.
Again building ,and structuring real estate portfolio , can be done so many different ways.I would choose a bit of everything (again just a personal preference) I can go into more detail another time. Although I am not a big fan of lower end rental homes. There still money there to be made there. We own and manage quite a few of them our selves
These are just more variables to be prepared for. So you don't wake up one day realizing you are paying more out of pocket then what the property is actually producing .
Again just my two cents….
Alex
I think this is a good discussion to have " is it better to invest where the market crashed IE AZ NV FL Central CA for example" or
Where the markets have remained fairly steady throughout the last 5 years IE " Texas"One could argue that the Homes in Texas can only go up if there is apprecaition and one could argue that homes in the markets where the values crashed can rebound Not by appreciation but market corrections as in the markets over reacted and the price's fell lower based on over building lack of liquidity and panic.
Then you have the markets like your talking about which is really any Big Northwest inner city or satillte city like Rochester where populations employeement etc. are all trending down and really there is not much hope for anything but a rental market and flat price's as I think most people acknowledge.
In these flat and super depressed markets there are all sorts of investors families etc that use the rental houses as a business and they own usually 50 or more sometimes 100's I know one old geezer that has 800 in Indy for example he has been collecting them for 50 years. There is economy in scale and with a larger portfolio in what I call the low end rentals ( or not so nicely slum lording) if you have enough of them and set it up as business you can make a living. What is very Risky in my mind is the investor that comes into those types of markets and buys 1 or 2 houses and expects the same returns as the folks who have volumes of houses. At the end of the day in these type of markets you want to get big enough that you do not hire property managers and maintenance crews. They are your employee's And you detach yourself from the Drama that is these tenants and issues. You make the decisions at the 1k foot level not in the trenchs.
I for one beleive there is more upside in buying the Higher end homes that prices have crashed and that a nice bounce back without appreciation will create a capital growth Scenerio. I do not beleive you will see any large apprecaition in a market Like Texas. Your already paying a premium for those houses. And builders can build new construction and compete with the rental stock very easily, Not to mention one of the highest property tax rates in the country,
Be interested in others veiw on whats best. The bounce back theory or the "my market never dropped theory and there is going to be apprecaiton"
As a company for our rental portfolios we only invest in State capitals. And then if its not a state capital it has to be the Country seat. You want as many state and Federal, medical, and education jobs as possible this leads to the most stable rental pool, and long time renters B/C State and Federal employees teachers etc do not move around as much as corperate self employeeds etc.
JLH
Hey Jay let me get back to the states but this is a very healthy topic. I am struggling with what clients are wanting. Homes that I would pass on.They are jumping on. Homes that make great sense for future appreciation. Are sitting and not moving .
So will follow up when I return back to the states. I am doing another trip soon to both Australia , Singapore. So hoping alot of over seas investors chime in on this discussion.
Sincerely
Alex
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