Well folks, if you want to get away from the spruik then let’s answer the original question… Where would you buy in Qld or Vic?
QLD: The market in SEQ has been pretty soft for a while and there are some good buys – I’d still look around Logan, Beenleigh, Eagleby if you want solid rental returns. For the price you’re quoting, you could afford a house which one would expect to have higher capital growth than a unit (capital growth is quite often linked to the land content of a property, hence houses are expected to appreciate more – usually but not always the rule!). Also look in Brisbane but you might have to be a little luckier.
VIC: I personally reckon the Victorian market is slowing down – you might be better looking up north. If you really want a Victorian property, I’d look somewhere along a growth corridor. You may have missed the boat for places like Frankston or Noble Park, but maybe Melton and Kurunjang aren’t so bad, or even Tarneit in the west?
I hope this helps. Good luck with your property investing!
Cheers,
Den
I don't know to much about property but I know a thing or two about the oil & gas industry. I have been heavily involved on some of the biggest projects in Australia and yes, I am karratha lad Born and bred. So I also know a thing or two about the effects these major jobs has on a community on all aspects including overpriced houses and B**%S#*T returns. Let's not compare Gladstone with Karratha just because the GLNG project will be going ahead, this job will at it's peak employ 3000 people, 1000 of which are white collars, 2000 blue collars. There will be a camp built for the workers and once the job is done it will have a maintenance team of 200, this is not a significant population boost into town. Gladstone has allot of property on the market, so the simple supply&demand is not going to outweigh like it has and is still in Karratha. Also Karratha is an established mining town, they didn't just have one project than boom!!!! No it had several major projects and it is ongoing at the moment. Karratha is the bottle neck for most exports in the North West. Buy a smoko van if you want to cash in on that project, seriously! Or own a brothel.
You are clearly not aware of the many LNG projects happening in Gladstone that will employ an extra 10,000 at the peak in a town which is currently about 40,000 people with a vacancy rate of 0.6% before any work has started. All the Gladstone projects are costing a total of $40 billion, that's $1 million per current resident. For some reason those from Karratha and Hedland think they are so special it can never happen elsewhere.
No we don't think were special Mattnz, that's silly. Sounds like you have done a bit of research, if it feels right just do it. i'll be sure to consider jumping onboard this coal train, Bro
So what's the ROI in Gladstone? What are the rents being achieved? I assume the investors are chasing capital growth as not much mention on rents in these posts? I imagine the cost of building in Gladstone is a lot cheaper tan Karratha. And I suppose there is more land available for development in Gladstone/Calliopie than Karratha. The Gold Coast properties have good returns. Lots of workers and students. So what's the rents in Gladstone?
Rents for a 4Bdm in Gladstone are around $410-$420 a week right now but expected to increase as the demand for housing really kicks in. British Gas put in a order for over 50 houses and developers just cant supply them… land is a real issue at the moment. The expected rental increase is anybodies guess right now.
I notice you asked what the rents were like in Gladstone. It's pretty easy to check them out for yourself and that way you know the numbers are good because it's your own research. When I did a quick search (go to realestate.com.au and look at rents right now being advertised for Gladstone) I found rents for four bedrooms to be between $370 and $500 per week, depending on location. Onthemoney has helped you with this, and good on him, but be careful that not everything you read on here is 100% verifiable!
Great to get tips from reliable people (and there are plenty of them here) but make sure you do your own research too!
Ok so i am not an investor i am a renter in Gladstone. I am in a 4 bdrm 2 bath house at present and the lease is not being renewed later this month. I have applied for houses up to $500 per week as this is the top i can afford at present. I have seen houses up to 1200 a week (honestly i rekon really to steep for what they are. on average 4 brms 2 bth i have found is from approx 420 to 660 at present. All viewings i have been to have had 10+ people attend. I have been told that the houses i applied for have had 5+ applications on the days of the viewing. I am finding it bloody hard to get a rental here at present and surrounding areas like calliope and tannum/boyne island are in the same ball parks as Gladstone however less intrest due to 20 – 30 mins out of town. This is likely to change as vacant houses in Gladstone are becoming harder and harder to come by. I am starting to look that way. I am a Gladstone born and bred (i know i shouldnt admit that) and the news around town is this boom is not going to let up for 5 or so years. Wish i had been smarter when i was younger and bought houses instead of wasting my dollars on cars. Hinde sight is a great thing. I hope this helps anyone looking at investing in Gladstone. Also i work for a private rail company so i do not benefit in anyway by encouraging investment in Gladstone.
Hey guys, great to be a part of this, first forum, my suggestion is not to read too much from media publications, they are there for a purpose, go to the area see what is really happening, ask the locals, unfortunately the mining areas seem to hide the real facts of areas. We can't be too niave. This positive propagander to the general public will put them in a positive light – this is what they need to do…..look at us and what we have done for the town. Can you imagine a media publication or a massive mining company allowing negative feedback going into publications – they have the deepest pockests please – with the politics involved, no one has any guarantees with the mining industries. Just go and take a look at America and some of the towns that were used and now just ghost towns. Dont want to put a downer on things but look at the big big picture if you are going to invest. I live in one of these towns. Lies Lies and Lies
Some great posts and some interesting insights regarding Gladstone.
I can't call myself an expert in the particular area but it seems like people are investing in Gladstone essentially as a mining town play – which all investments in mining towns carry very specific risks different from property investments in cities such as Sydney and Melbourne.
Since the project itself hasn't really taken off yet, you will have to take the risk of delays to the project – as the project could be delayed due to factors such as Government (especially given the higher politcal profile of the project), weather (which would delay site development and operations), as well as migration (given the current skills shortages here) to name a few. These types of delays will come at a cost to investors as they wait for the huge influx of people coming into town to work which they can then realise their return on investment. Although it is safe to say that it will happen – given the advanced state of the project, however you can expect a few bumps along the way. As long as you are patient and have enough cash to cover your shortages during the riskier parts of the project (i.e. approval, development, construction phase) you should be ok. The only long term exposure investors will have is to the prices and demand for commodities as well as the financial strength of the operating companies, all by which are risks that all investors must take when making a property investment in a mining town.
I would look at and research Moorooka (7km's from CBD) and Holland Park (6km's from CBD). Can still buy good property in your price range and have excellent rental returns.
I think to answer the question that research and due diligence needs to be applied – I have found that Terry Ryders Hotspotting reports provide great unbiased info
Getting back to the original question. Melbourne metro has certainly slowed down and the rental yields are very low. Rents have not caught up with the explosive growth during the last 18 months.
Regional Victoria is doing quite well as you can find many properties with above 6% yield with solid capital growth. Areas such Ballarat are performing well and set to rise even further after the state government announced that it will be proceeding with the Regional rail link. It is also very interesting to read up on the councils and state governments blue print for Ballarat as it is going to be a major regional hub.
Geelong. For all the reasons discussed at great length in a thread some time back. Avalon airport is going to be expanded to be an international airport, and the rail line will have an extra piece built onto it that goes directly to Avalon Airport. Since Tullamarine airport has no such thing, doesn't take a genius to work out that it'll be easier for people to fly into Avalon rather than Tulla. The nearest major centre to Avalon is….. Geelong. And it has the surf coast as well. Swallow your pride, put your thinking hat on, and look at Corio and surrounds.
I partially agree with JacM’s comments as Geelong is certainly one of the regional centres to consider, however it should be noted that Geelong has already experienced significant price rises. You would need to ask yourself if you have missed the boat with this one? (median house price is already $476K and vacancy rates are 2.8%). Rental yields are only 4.1% so you’re almost better off buying Melbourne metro with these numbers.
Compare this with Ballarat Central which has a median house price of only $298K and vacancy rates are 1%. You can also find many properties that have 6%+ yields. The numbers just seem to stack up for Ballarat and this will only improve once the train station upgrades ramp up (the upgrades have already commenced).
Wherever you buy, make sure you do the numbers and make an informed business decision.
In the 20th century the property was all about position and proximity to the CBD. Now .. as you might be aware .. the need to be going to the CBD is now minimal. I'd be lucky if I go to the CBD 4 times in a year. So things are organised for the 21st century in terms of ease of access to public transport, proximity to good facilities and shopping centres. This means a couple of things, the real growth will come in areas you'd think were hot already.
Areas such as Maribynong and Doncaster will not drop out of fashion. With Westfield and Highpoint .. these dominate the retailing landscape and create a CBD in its own right. Continuing demand will have a lot of these places going to multi storey within close proximity of the shopping centres. Snap up full blocks in the surrounds of these areas while you still can. I think Point Cook is heading the same way. Sure its properties start at 500k now for land and house, but its got a fabulous pair of shopping centre and its close to public transport with good roadways. Narre Warren has a good shopping centre .. but lousy road networks. If they improve the roads in that area (look out for this) then this could be a one for the future.
I see the death knell for the student accomodation taking place shortly because of the way the banks are now treating them. If they lose their student-only status (which when landlords are panicky .. could well happen) then they will become the new slums of the 21st century. This means Carlton .. and Melbourne CBD are vulnerable to this.
Southbank and Docklands remain duds. I had great hope for Docklands when it was proposed, but its just so unfriendly even now. I dont think anyone living there feels any different.
East Melbourne is picking up in demand because its not Melbourne and close enough to walk there. Even though its expensive now .. its not going to trend far from being a good thing.
In the 10k from the GPO (which isnt a GPO anymore) most areas have been rediscovered .. renovated and revalued. I think Collingwood still remains .. much unloved. This is one I have a couple in.
And as someone said before .. Geelong and surrounds are too cheap for the value they offer. Once that happens and the transport to and from Geelong improves, expect industry and jobs to flow. One thing that will start that off is the downturn in the car industry. The Geelong council will be actively competing for new intake of businesses to the area.
Finally .. Dandenong may have been a big mover in the last 10 years .. but its still holding 44% of all manufacturing in Victoria in its backyard (based on official stats). That can only mean that for the early 21st century .. business will be happening in and around Dandenong in a big way. Get in now .. the prices you pay are still under a million for prime proximity land to the Dandenong CBD. Try to get R2 zoned land, its getting harder to get and there is more demand for it.
And as someone said before .. Geelong and surrounds are too cheap for the value they offer. Once that happens and the transport to and from Geelong improves, expect industry and jobs to flow. One thing that will start that off is the downturn in the car industry. The Geelong council will be actively competing for new intake of businesses to the area.
Great post, xdrew.
Now at the risk of making this look like a spruik, I'm packing in one more vote for Geelong.
As JacM stated, Corio and surrounds offers property that is truly bang for the buck. Imagine this: a 3 bedder on a 600+ sqm block for around $200K. Such property can be found in Norlane, which is even closer to the CBD than Corio. People haven't quite caught on to this: if it takes 50-60 minutes to get from Geelong to the Melbourne CBD (and with reasonable rail access also), and it takes a comparable amount of time to get from an outer suburb into Melbourne city, then Geelong has become an outer suburb. It is no longer a 'regional center'.
I consider Geelong to be a real gem. It's starting to look more and more like Melbourne city itself, except better planned, less congestion and no trams. Even some of the street names make you think of the Melbournian counterparts. It is no longer the sleepy hamlet I remember it to be, about 10 years ago. If you live in Geelong, there's still plenty of employment opportunities, or you could commute to Melbourne for work. The atmosphere is far less stressful, almost holiday-like. And to me, a holiday atmosphere within easy commute to work is a real plus point.
There have been a number of articles over the years that talk about areas of the Surf Coast being popular with a wide demographic of people, ranging from the retirees to young professionals. Personally, I've been looking to the north of Geelong, at areas like Drumcondra, Rippleside and St Helens (the beachside area of North Geelong). There's lovely period housing in these areas, walking distance to the water's edge, and in the case of the latter two areas, an easy walk to North Geelong train station, 5 minutes drive into the CBD, house-proud owner-occupiers…and you can still buy houses in Rippleside for less than $450K (at time of writing).
If you're actually worried about climate change and rising sea levels, well, don't. Take a drive down to Rippleside and see for yourself that the houses are actually reasonably elevated above sea level. It'd take a tsunami to bring these houses down.
There was also a recent article in The Age that describes plans for a new industrial center to the north of Corio that would bring jobs into that suburb and Norlane. I presume the intention is to get this kicked off before the reign of car manufacturing in Geelong comes to an end. It could take a number of years, but the gentrification of North Geelong and Norlane is inevitable. As it stands, the old Rippleside shipyard is about to be transformed into low-rise, luxury waterfront apartments with private marina, and I've at least read about plans to turn the North Geelong golf course into a golf-links residential estate. There's a lot going for this area, IMO.
This might sound a bit far-fetched, but I reckon Drumcondra, Rippleside and St Helens are well set to become the trendy inner suburbs of Geelong. They lack the 'hip' and 'gritty' factor of suburbs such as St Kilda because of the really quiet streets and parks and the lack of cool cafes in the immediate area, but that's not to say they can't be popular with the yuppies.
Note: I have a house in St Helens/ Rippleside, so if you want to take the above info as a spruik, that's understandable. But just have a think about it: a 3 bed/ 2 bath/ double carport detached house on land (about 400 sqm) so close to the bay you can smell the sea, and a rental yield of 4.35%. When the tide is right, you can even walk to the nearby jetty, do some fishing and walk back home. Try getting something like this near Melbourne!
Also, a couple more areas that I like: Werribee South, again for proximity to the beach, although by the looks of things, it's miles away from most things.
Mount Eliza: already ritzy, but that doesn't mean the potential doesn't exist. I predict the area to become a playground for well-heeled baby boomers in the future (if it isn't already).
Alternatively, if you believe what people say about housing being overpriced, and the property market set to crash to the tune of 40%, you're better off waiting. Who knows, Geelong's median price could drop to $290K. Sorry, couldn't resist.
With Westfield and Highpoint .. these dominate the retailing landscape and create a CBD in its own right.
I’d question obtaining advice from someone that seems to think that a collection of retails stores ie Westfields constitutes a CBD?? Very interesting indeed.
The reason why these areas, particularly Maribyrong have done well is because of its location. I personally think the area is overpriced and filled with Macmassions that lack substance. Its very sterile, unlike other inner west suburbs like Seddon and Yarraville.