Anyone bought Atlanta properties using Top Rental Returns?

Mike and Bron,

And to the general audiance:

Even with that amount of due diligence which is just normal for the industry or should be normal anyone doing less is really not someone you would want to let handle your properties, you will still have experince's like your client that just posted has had, Evictions trashed units, stolen condenser units etc.

Its a fact happens to us happens to everyone in this bizz. I think the important message is that these types of investments carry a certain amount of risk for the investor operator. And for investors to think that they are going to buy a property and have no bad experinces over the course of ownership is just wishful thinking and they are beleiving what they want to beleive or a sale pitch.

At the end of the day you can do everything right like your doing, and a tenant can still not pay and or destroy a home and bottom line the buyer is responsible for all these cost's. Your company after the property has settled is not financially responsible to make any mortgage payments on behalf of your buyer, do any repairs at your cost etc etc. Which is how it is with 99% of the investments out there.

What I see happening is people invest in these properties with un realistic expectations of you or any other property finding company and a lot of the expectations are created from the marketing companies themselves they do not go into any kind of detail on the down side of owning only the positive , And the expense side of running the property is understated by a lot. So when the normal things happen in owning rentals in the US. Tenants don't pay tenants trash units things get stolen, houses sit vacant for a few months etc etc. It comes as some big shock to the investor because they have not been fully informed up front of these issues. If you did have full disclosure up front you would not sell as many houses as you do people would be more cautious and look at other methods or investments all together. I see it time and again with those who sell property to out of area clients their profroma's for the running of the property are just that proforma's not based on actual running expenses and are constantly and routinely puffed to make the return look better than it really will be.

Then what happens is and I am not sure about the Aussies but a lot of US buyers for sure usually do not have enough reserve capital to buy any kind of rentals and they end up loosing the properties, I know I foreclosed on over 150 of non owner occuppied loans I had made from 06 to 09. and am now the proud owner of most of those. Since most of the Aussies are paying cash this is not as prevelant as with US investors which have lost millions of rentals over the last few years. But I have seen Aussies just letting their properties go for tax's as they bought in such garden spots as Buffalo or some other rust belt town because the properties were cheap and rents inflated but you could never consistantly collect rent to many houses renters just bounce around.

For this reason if you ask anyone in the business its darn hard to get a loan on a rental you need a lot of liquidity and reserves before a bank will make a loan. Ergo the opportunity that is out there for all of us who are fishing in this same pond. It caused the market to crash, and once people got upside down then the stratigic defaults took over and it just feed on itself, not to mention over building in the first place in certain markets NV AZ FL central CA, and GA to an extent.

Like I said in my last post what has happened to your client is not an aberration and its not the Norm but it happens to a fair % of rental properties nationwide. I just had one here in Oregon where I live that was completly trashed after 4 years. Had to take the house down to the studs because of odor issues, 30k rehab at cost.

Any management company is going to have a vacancy factor of something like 5 to 10% is normal. 0 vacancy may happen for a month or so, but lease's come up people move. So with a portfolio like yours your going to be turning at least 1 to 2 properties a month, that will need light work to full rehabs just like when you bought them at the foreclosure sales or auctions or where ever you source your properties. So your clients within 24 to 36 months if they want to bring the house back to the condition you sold it to them in. will be faced with 2k minimum to 10k rehabs and if you get that bad one like your client posted it could be more.

So what that does is takes an investment that everyone in the industry touts as a 18% gross 12% net and you deduct the true running cost and your nowhere near those numbers. and for those unfortuante ones that get a bummer it will be negativly geared substantially,  Again not every property will experince this. 

To the Audience why do all of these properties need 5 to 20k in rehab?   And these are homeowners that have lived there generally less than 10 years, just think what tenants do.
So I do not think its prudent or logical for people to invest in these properties and think that the running costs are going to be 50 a month or nothing as some folks claim.

Bottom line anyone with any experince in this bizz will take 50% of gross rent and use that as the running cost number then figure Net return. If you do better thats great. However greatly mitigates the down side and if you have surplus cash left over thats a good thing, Its a bad thing to think your running costs are going to be 25% and your having to continually feed the property.

For anyone who cares here is how we set up our properties.

Day 1 settlement   depending on property age 2k to 3k is set aside in reserve fund.

Monthly on top of tax's insurance we put 200 a month away for maintenance and vacancy factor, now if you have no debt on the property vacancy factor is not as big an issue, however I would still put this amount away for safety factor.

So over the course of a 5 year hold we have put 2 to 3k away added to it to the tune of 2400 a year. So thats 14k to 15k per property plus hard costs tax's and insurance.

Now we of course do not charge a leasing fee or management fee to the project. Our goal is to spend 5k to 7k in true operational expense for the rental side leaving 7 to 8k left in the reserve account to do another rehab to sell the property RETAIL>

There is no way that your going to buy one of these rentals and not do a retail rehab 5 years down the line and expect to sell them and get capital growth. You will need New carpets the latest paint colors coutner tops, appliances at a minimum.

So just think about it, you buy a US rental put little to nothing away for reserves pay out of pocket running costs (which you will) and then when you want to retail it you will spend at least as much as the rehab when you first bought it.

Another issue I think is important and pretty good advice is not to over do it on the rehab first time for a tenant. Your just going to have to redo it again. On older homes in our portfolio we spend the money on the important parts Mechanics roof plumbing electrical HVac, We will usually replace all of these items if they are 15 to 20 years old regardless if they will pass a home inspection or not, because again when you go retail this house in 5 years the Major componanats are only 5 years old you spend 5k on cosmetics and you will beat your competition who bought a rental and did mainly cosmetic work that makes it look great to you sitting in your living room somewhere in the world but is not necessary to get a good tenant.

The secret to running rentals is minimizing your maintenenace calls, and you do not get many for cosmestics like paint colors etc. it will all be H Vac plumbing and electrical and roof leaks. so we have learned through trial and error and 30 years experince this is what a company should do that is in the business of running rentals, No need to put a 3k paint job on the outside if the current one just needs touch up house in most instance's will rent fine, Just lower your rent price by 25 bucks and it will rent right away, Thats the other main comment I have do not over price your rental rate, try to under cut market you will have your pick of clients and rent it much faster 25 a month to renter is a big deal. If you sit vacant for 2 or 3 months waiting for that person to pay 900 when you could have gotten 875 right out of the gate. How many months does it take at 25 a month to get to 900 or 1800 in lost revenue as your property just sat there.

there is another thread with regard to TRR, like a lot of home buying services here in the states, they subbed out management when they first started only to have a lot of problems which most people have in the states with 3rd party managers and I think from what they wrote they have brought management in house now. So it becomes a profit center for them and a necessity as I am sure they will do better doing it themselves then subbing it out.

No doubt property management is the weak link in buying US rentals

We own 4 properties which we acquired through Top Rental Returns which we acquired just over 12 months ago. Over this period, two properties have been fine, but the other two havent. We got tenants at one point in properties 3 and 4 but they never paid rent aside from the initial month and so both had to be evicted.

We understand the third property has been rented again, but dont know yet when the tenant will move in. The 4th property was vandalised while vacant and we are waiting for the insurance company to come through with a cheque to repair – so far this has taken more than 3 months.

In 12 months, the net cash yield, pre debt, across all 4 properties is essentially zero

Interested to hear how others are going. We may have been unlucky and fingers crossed for a much better year next year!!!!

We will update on progress.

Red flag goes up for me in Atlanta when you hear of companies saying that they have the properties rented in a week or have a waiting list.

Anyone can do that. However you will take a huge risk in placing a bad tenant.

So this investor just lost one year or more of any kind of return if you look at the numbers. and deduct non performing asset with trashed home as well… Most deductables on Rentals is 5k and if its less your paying far more than standard insurance rates and that will factor into your holding cost.

Now as anyone who follows my post knows we retain ownership of the homes through a Morgage participation so we take responsibility for these types of issues on the financial side and our investor is never affected they always get their return each month. Its that invest well sleep well theory, I can't imagine someone sitting in Aussie making a what was probably a 200k investment only to be hearing these types of things from a property manager that has no vested interest. that has got to be frightning for sure.

That being said it takes us anywhere from day 1 which is very lucky to 45 days to fill a vacancy. On average we will get 4 to 7 applications before we take a tenant. Once we have a tenant we keep them at all cost. And we can do that because we own the house and are very very responsive to their needs.. No property manager can do what we do for our tenant pool, Unless the property manager is going to come out of his or her own pocket to do the things we do for tenant retention. This whole business starts and ends with tenant placement and retention. Anyone can fly over to Atlanta bid on foreclosures. buy one fix it up and flick it to a property manager. Thats easy , its the next 5 to 10 years that is the hard part and crucial to success.

Reading between the lines of whats happening in atlanta is there is a lot of buying going on, great buys, however a whole heck of a lot of rental stock being put on the market at the same time. Then add pressure from investors to the property manager to get a tenant in the house and get it cash flowing and now you have the above mentioned scenerios playing out.

There is an absorbtion issue with rentals just like there is selling new construction. Only rentals are worse you get 50% of your portfolio in trouble now your really not sleeping nights. The 2 properties that are having problems could be months away from getting a decent tenant again.

And or the properties in the first place were not in a the best location.. Although as Alex says it can happen to anyone.

I was in a very Nice town of Atlanta closing a few transactions last summer and asked my closing attorney why it was so hot in his office…….." He said Aircondioning Units were stolen the night before"

Next thing that I am going to get rich on is coming up with a cheap way to put Condenser units on the Roof:) then put a lojac on them.

So bottom line can you make 12 to 15% Noi from these rentals Absolutly in a perfect world, Do we live in a perfect world NO, Crap happens tenants are tenants.

I have bought one property from TRR last year, and have been delighted with it all. 
Obviously – I was a bit nervous at first – it is a long way away – but it is a great property and the team at TTR were great. 
The property took a few weeks to rent – but that was because they wanted to get the right quality of tenant in there to avoid issues later.  I went over to check the property out in April this year in person and met the tenant – fabulous – couldn't have asked for a better quality of reno or tenant.  Obviously there is always rental risk, as there is here in Australia – but that is the risk you take for the greater return. 

Since April, I have bought another – and to date that is all going very smoothly also.

I am really very, very pleased with my experience and recommend TRR to all my friends.  I aim to buy another property with them by the end of this year.  Happy to respond to any queries about my experience.  Trina

Hi Trina
Can you post your property purchases?

Thanks

WI

Hi,
In response to the request re posting my property purchases – would you like the addresses?
thanks
Trina

Trina,

I also own Atlanta properties so may be nice to catch up with a private message. 
Are you happy to accept contact via the site as your profile is currently not accepting contact.

TassieJH

Jay

TRR do not purchase from wholesalers, they purchase direct from the bank. 

 I know a number of investors who have purchased properties through TRR and I believe they are decent properties.

I think they have been  purchasing in Atlanta for perhaps 3 years now  and also providing a property management service. As I mentioned, when they started they had no experience and unfortunately they unwittingly purchased some properties in undesirable areas. 

WI

Seemed like some solid deals been following them my self for a quite a bit.

Alex