All Topics / Legal & Accounting / Have a Family trust set up, what next ??
Hi ,
Managed to get the Family trust set up by the Accountant. The bank is in the process of creating the trust account. we will be transferring the house we live in now into trusts name. What is the process? What do i need to do now?
Could someone outline the steps pls…thanks
Please get proper advice before you do that.
Firstly there will be little asset protection, especially in the early years, because of the clawback provisions of the bankruptcy act.
Land tax may also be payable where it otherwise wouldn't be. If you will continue to live in the house, then there are many legal implications involved as well as tax implications. And losses of the trust cannot be used to offset personal income.So, firstly I would see a lawyer. You will need them to do the conveyancing too. You will need to transfer from yourself to the trustees (even if still yourself), discharge loans and then reapply again. so you may be up for buy/sell conveyancing fees, loan exit and application fees, stamp duty and valuation fee (for stamp duty).
You will also lose the main residence CGT exemption.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Hi Terry, Thanks for the word of caution.Yes,
we are aware of the risks involved in the worst case. Not sure about the Landtax tho'
We are currently building new house so we r intending to rent it out ourselves until the house is finished .
I assume this should not be problem as it will be short term 6-8 months.
The bank would not discharge the current house as its being used as security for the new loan (wat ever that means)We are aware of the Stamp duty n other admin bank fees.
Can we do the conveyancing ourselves or is it better to shell some $$ on the settlement agent.
Either way could you detail what are the steps to be taken.I guess you could do the conveyancing yourselves. You are basically buying off yourself so you wouldn't need to do the usual checks etc. Just a transfer.
Land tax will depend on which state the property is in. If NSW then 1.6% tax of the value of the land will be applied for trusts with no tax free threshold.
The bank must release the property as security or you will not be able to transfer title. One of the problems with cross collateralising. What you could do is to move the existing loans over to the property once the trust owns it. Then you have legal issues such as is the trustee acting in the best interests of the beneficiaries by allowing one beneficiary to use trust property to secure a loan.
Steps would be, roughly,
Get your trust deed stamped, ABN, TFN etc
Apply for finance as trustee for the trust.
Arrange the transfer document to be filled in.
Check with OSR if they need a valuation for stamp duty purposes, and then order if necessary
Arrange to have the loan discharged and substitution of security if necessary.
Work out payout figures, collect a deposit from your trust, pay stamp duty, notify council etc of change of ownershipTerryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Do we need to pay Land tax even for Villas?? Our current property is a Villa in Perth
Villas would be counted. Land tax is payable on the land component only. Main residences are usually exempt and investment properties up to a certain value are exempt. I am not sure of the rules for WA, but in NSW there is no exemption for trusts.
eg. In NSW you owned a house worth $500,000 with a land value of $300,000 there would be no land tax payable, where is if this was held in a trust then 1.6% pa = $4800 would be payable every year. Huge impact.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Terryw wrote:Villas would be counted. Land tax is payable on the land component only. Main residences are usually exempt and investment properties up to a certain value are exempt. I am not sure of the rules for WA, but in NSW there is no exemption for trusts.eg. In NSW you owned a house worth $500,000 with a land value of $300,000 there would be no land tax payable, where is if this was held in a trust then 1.6% pa = $4800 would be payable every year. Huge impact.
Thanks Terry.
Just a quick clarification..
a. Can the stamp duty paid on this property be claimed ?? If so when?
b. Can we claim the interest paid ?? If so when?
c. What percentage of the expenses spent can be claimed ??
Got different answers , hence thot of seeking your advise.
Cheers
a. Stamp duty is a capital expense, so it could only be claimed against any CG when sold.
b. Depends what you mean by "we". You as an individual cannot claim interest on loan the trustee takes out to purchase trust property. The trust would claim the interest. If the trust is a unit trust and you borrow to buy the units you may be able to claim the interest.
c. any expenses relating to the purchase or operation of an investment property can be claimed – by the owner of the property.
Just think of the trust as a separate person (for tax) – that will make it easier to get your head around.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Thanks Terry, I should have been clear.
Terryw wrote:a. Stamp duty is a capital expense, so it could only be claimed against any CG when sold.When sold to Trust or when the Trust sells it off in the future.??
Terryw wrote:b. Depends what you mean by "we". You as an individual cannot claim interest on loan the trustee takes out to purchase trust property. The trust would claim the interest. If the trust is a unit trust and you borrow to buy the units you may be able to claim the interest.Sorry to be clear, We=Family Trust…Can the Family trust claim the interest at the end of the year??
Terryw wrote:c. any expenses relating to the purchase or operation of an investment property can be claimed – by the owner of the property.The family Trust buys the property, so they can claim 100% of the expenses?
If the trust is purchasing a rental property then the stamp duty could be deductible against the capital gain when sold. if a person is selling to the trust then the stamp duty may be deductible against any capital gain if it was a rental.
Just think of the trust as a separate person – which it is for tax purposes (but not legally).
If a person buys a property and rents it they can generally claim the interest. Generally they can also claim the expenses too.
If the trust is renting the property to a beneficiary or trustee just be careful and get your accountant's advice first. There is a chance the ATO could claim it is a scheme.
Also bear in mind that if your trust has no other income it is probably going to have losses – which won't be offset and these will need to be carried forward. This may also mean you need to make a family trust election too.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Hi Terry,
Thanks for the prompt reply.The trust is buying investment property from us. We will move out to the new place. So no Tax complications from ATO.
Can the Trust claim the expenses(ex: carpets,painting etc) and interest at the end of the year or when the property sold?
Sorry I know nothing about trust and invesments, trying to find out whether to sell our property(no mortgage exist) to trut for investing before we move to new place or sell it.
Thanks
Some expenses such as carpet etc would be capital expenses, so you would have to depreciate them – the trust that is. Same with painting too i think.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
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