Currently have a development application with council to build 4 townhouses.
Council wants us to try and run a pipe from our property through to our rear neighbour's for storm water purposes. Obviously, there will then be an easement in our favour.
While we offered to replace the neighbour's fence and do landscaping, she said no. She is quite elderly and was under the impression we wanted to buy her land. Despite assurances, she would not budge.
Our architect is of the opinion that the pumping stations are a better alternative – council will agree to this if neighbour says no.
HOWEVER, architect thinks we can get pumping stations done etc for less than $10k.
Other quotes we received from hydraulic engineers are around $40k. When presented to the architect he said the scope of works outlined were excessive and we need to shop around, and he's willig to help.
Could anyone please help what their experiences are with pumping stations and also how much it can cost?
This is what our architect said we could do:
"single 10,000L tank (standard size) say in the ground beside T4 (with visitor park on top of it) and link the overflows from the 2 above ground roof water tanks then a single pump out system to the street using 2 submersible pumps (one for emergency) will function properly and the cost will be in the order of $5000. This is verified as well by my son-in-law who installed a similar system of 7000L tank and pump for approx $2000 at his new house at Stafford."
THANK YOU GUYS IN ANTICIPATION.Dreamer, your artichoke is dreaming. That said, it all comes down to the construction detailing.
Assuming that you are going to use a standard 10KL tank, you must excavate to suit (about 10-11 m3 of soil), the top/inlet of it needs to be below the lowest point to be drained. (You may be hard pushed to find a 10KL tank which will withstand the forces of being buried as well as being able to withstand traffic loading, so the retention pit will probably be a formed concrete pit or precast concrete.
Yes, you will need 2 pumps (standby + backup) + float valve.
Scott No Mate
Thanks for your input – its very helpful. I shall broach this with my artichoke and see what he says.
Just wondering if anyone else had similar experience?
Hi
I question if you need a 10k tank? You would only need a tank large enough to hold enough water for the pump to work. The pump will need to be of sufficient size to pump out the water as fast as it is coming in. This will depend on the roof size and the one a hudred storm that will dump up to 400 mm on your roof in an hour. What will trigger the second pump to cut in, in the emergency? For me the key is how the pumps are set up and the best place to go is an agriculture pump place. They can calculate the flow rates from your roof area and the size of the pump and the piping you will need.
One thing is for sure, I would rather work with the pumps than with the neighbour!This is a bit off topic I was specking to a bloke at Redcliffe and he was quoted around $50.000 for inground rain water storage tank of 60000 litres. He got a pool guy around to quote all up with pump $15000, this with a top to take large trucks. So I cannot see why you cannot get a pool guy around for the tank and irrigation guy for the pumps who will work out the rain water flow and size of pumps and output. Yes you have soil to move but thats the pool guys problem, but I feel you would get out around the $10000 mark. I'd rather deal with the tank and pump than the neighbour,
Brian
A hydraulic engineer will design a solution for you (including the calculations, pump & pipe sizing etc). Pump size will be limited by the flow rate which is permitted by the council – they want a detention tank to slow down the load on their stormwater system not so that you can pump it out as fast as you can.
Who pays ongoing energy bills to run the pumps?
Who pays for the pumping station inspections, maintenance and replacements?Elderly tend to retreat to a safe place rather than understanding, so they usually have an advisor
and that's the person you need to talk to. It may be a family member or old friend or solicitor,
sometimes an old retired bank manager, but there's nearly always someone. And she needs
to know who is going to protect her and property – e.g Council, solicitor, friend etc.
A stormwater pipe (through an easement) directly connected to the areas stormwater system
sounds much simpler and more sustainable into the future than pumping stations.
My suggestion is to fully explore both paths.
And in my experience of trying to deal with Councils, I'd prefer to deal with the neighbour.
Cheers
thecrestthecrest | Tony Neale - Statewide Motel Brokers
http://www.statewidemotelbrokers.com.au
Email Me | Phone Meselling motels in NSW
What purpose do the pumps serve in this scenario?
The issue seems to be the retention of water. If this is the case, stormwater retention pits need to be installed. What usually occurs is that pits are installed that accept the stormwater before it is discharged into the legal point of discharge. Once these pits are full the stormwater then drains as usual. The theory is that the amount of time it takes to fill the retention pits will defer the discharge until the peak demand has passed.
Unless the water is running up hill, there should be no need for pumps.
The problem is he cannot discharge to the street without creating an easement over the neighbour's property, obviously the neighbour is reluctant (and won't do it for love nor money). The purpose of the pump is to get the water out of the pit (which would be below street level).
If the neighbour has an advisor they would advise against creating an easement.
I-dream-houses wrote:Priorities change as we age. From your post, there appears to be a lack of communication. Try to think like a "quite elderly" grandmother. She doesn't need problems, but perhaps if she understood the issue through her trusted advisor, she might prefer you gifted a $10K Uni trust account to one of her grandchildren rather than blew the money on tanks and pumps. Doesn't hurt to ask. She might see it as mining the property for a worthwhile nugget. Who knows. She's obviously not a Town Planner and most likely doesn't think like one.
Cheers
thecrestthecrest | Tony Neale - Statewide Motel Brokers
http://www.statewidemotelbrokers.com.au
Email Me | Phone Meselling motels in NSW
Yeah I would avoid the tank and pump scenario and work a bit harder to get the stormwater connection – try phoning your local Councillor who represents you and use them as a mediator to help.
Even still, i’m not even sure you need their consent – that could also be worth double checking and getting some advice.
RH, you NEED THE OWNER'S CONSENT IN ORDER TO GET AN EASEMENT OVER THEIR PROPERTY. Even a tenant with a registered lease has rights over the property that they occupy and if it were a commercial site adjoining, then you would need to get their consent.
The creation of an easement over the adjoining neighbour's property can be a problem and probably more effort than it is worth. It is up to the developer to determine the best course of action, remembering that if there is another solution, even if it is more costly, then you may have to do it if it means not burdening the adjoining property with an easement. PS old people aren't silly and no amount of advice will change their mind about their property (gardens are valuable).
Hello all,
Thanks to each of you who have given your opinions and advice on the matter.
I thought I should update you as to what's happened so far.
First of all, we completely understand the neighbour – I mean who wants an easement on their property that BURDENS the proeprty and BENEFIT our land. The positive thing for her is that if she would later want to sell her property to a developer, the developer could just tap into the existing stormwater saving money. Also, the stormwater would also deal with her overland flow issues.
What I didn't mention was that the neighbour appears to be "not of sound mind". We asked if we could please speak with her relatives as we certainly didnt want to be seen as taking advantage of her state of mind. However, the daughter would not agree to the easement despite offers of compensation.
The council has been advised of this and they have agreed for us to have an alternative stormwater management plan. They asked that reliance on the pumping stations be as little as possible.
Our architect thinks he may have solved the problem. The water collected from the two front townhouses will be dicharged to the kerb via the roof line. There will be a gravel pit for the back townhouses, with automatic controls such that the flow will be diverted to the irrigation and any extra water will then be gathered by a small tank, etc.
I think this is called an INFILTRATION SYSTEM. It is much simpler. If there is an overland flow to the rear neighbour, it wouldn't be more than what it is now.
Im sorry if I confused you with my decription of the infiltration system as I couldnt recall exactly. I will cut and paste on Monday and post it here so that everyone can have a read should they be interested. I hope that this assists others out there.
Again, thank you all. I very much appreciate your comments.
Infiltration systems only work in certain soils, so thats good fortune that you can do that.
And to Scott No Mates – thanks for the capital letters and bold text, I would have otherwise missed your comments entirely.
To clarify my comments – I was referring to the fact that if there was already an existing stormwater drainage system in place with an existing easement, then you could simply connect into it, but obviously if there is nothing there, then yes you would need the easement and its probably not worth it – it sounds like the house dreamer has it covered now anyway.
RH
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