All Topics / Help Needed! / New Loan Contract Signed – Are these legitimate concerns ??

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  • Profile photo of dnh83dnh83
    Member
    @dnh83
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 81

    Hi All,

    I'm wanting to know your thoughts on a new Loan i've had the bank draw up for me…some of it doesn't feel right and given I'm new to dealing with banks I'm wondering if I'm being burnt…

    Apologies up front for the length of this post, I want to provide the detail needed to assist with responses…

    My Current Situation:
    –  NAB Choice Package
    –  $200k P&I Loan (started banking with NAB in March this year)
    –  Property Purchase Price $225k
    –  Reno Expenses so far $20k (Kitchen, Bathroom, Electrics, Gas/Water Plumbing, + misc work)
    –  Reno not yet finished, therefore not in a state for new 'revaluation' and has only been revalued at purchase price ($225k)
    –  New IO Loan of $50k requested to assist with Sub-Division and External Reno's

    The additional $50k has been approved and today I went in to complete the paper work (servicing the additional loan is not a problem). 

    I was initially shocked to be told there would be a $700 establishment fee due to it being a business loan not a personal loan.  I agreed to accept this and moved through the contract.  I was then told that the interest rate would be 8.8% rather than the 5.8% i'm paying for my home loan.  Seem's like my Choice Package doesn't cover as much as I thought !!

    When I weighed it up, I needed the loan ASAP to progress with my sub-division so I accepted their conditions (I've got some large Sub-Division bills due early Jan)…they basically had me by the balls and knew I needed the cash anyway…(plus i'm new to banking with them and I know I need to prove my worth).

    Here's the catch that has raised some of my concerns…after speaking to my bank managers associate, a little more information came through…

    Firstly, as soon as the money is draw down into one of my accounts I'll be paying interest on it.  What I wanted, and thought I was getting, was a loan that sits there, not accumulating interest, until it is used – basically acting like an offset (but i've been told I can't have an offset with a IO Business Loan).

    Then as we talked, she spoke about the loan needing to be paid back within 6 months.  When I signed the contract this was not mentioned, nor was it something I wanted as my entire project will take longer than 6 months (2 months on remaining Sub-Division, 6 months for build, 1 month settlement)…Unfortunately this is my error, the payout date was detailed in the contract, just under the loan amount and I missed it !!

    The associate was helpful in explaining that going over this period shouldn't be a problem as we can just draw up another loan in 6 months time (free of charge) to help cover the additional time needed before my profits are realised (eg: newly built house is sold)…

    Finally, I've requested the cash be put on hold for the time being for 2 reasons (1 – So I dont pay interest on it.  2 – Because I need to research this situation a little more – hence my post here !!)…

    Now that the scene is set, here's the Q's that are playing on my mind:

    1.  Are Business Loan's typically more expensive/have higher interest rates than Personal Loans ??
    2.  Can you have IO Business Loans with Offsets (or set up so you only pay interest on the cash you use) ??
    3.  Are there any problems with drawing up another loan in 6 months to cover the addition time needed before profits are realised ??
    4.  Can I tear up the contract, even tho it's been signed (considering I actually haven't received any of the funds yet) ??
    5.  Am I being paranoid, is this just a typical business loan transaction ??

    I feel that I'm building a good relationship with both my Bank Manager and his Associate, and I'm sure they're just doing what they need too – being cautious gets the better of me sometimes and I'm just wondering if I should have these concerns ??

    Thanks in advance for your input all, again apologies for the length of this one

    Hope you all have a great Christmas  ;)

    Cheers,

    Darren

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Yes business loans are usually more expensive. Not sure why yours is a business loan now.
    You could have used a line of credit loan so you only pay interest on the funds drawn – maybe this one has redraw.
    in 6 months you will need to requalify for a new loan, so it will depend on your situation at that time. Bank Policies do change too and they seem to be getting tougher.
    You have accepted their offer so probably have a binding contract, but you should be able to exit that contract by notifiying them. Exit fees etc would be payable but if you haven't drawn any funds they may not charge you.

    I would suggest you just try to increase your existing loan and have it as a split loan in the form of a LOC. But this may not be possible now, depending on what you have told the NAB already. Also it may be difficult to do as the banks are not giving access to large sums ($10k+) of cash without knowing exactly what it will be used for.

    It is not good to be in the middle of a project and to require more funds and this to be at the will of the bank – they will have an even tighter grip on your balls and will be squeezing harder.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of dnh83dnh83
    Member
    @dnh83
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 81

    Thanks Terry…

    The Bank know's about my entire plan, and they have known about it from day one (Purchase House needing Reno, Sub-Divide, Build, Sell)…

    They've got all of the figures that prove I can cover the costs (selling, holding, etc including profits and ROI's for 3 different options)…I've even given them all of the project time frames and expenses (right down to individual figures for things like water meters, power poles, etc)…I wanted to make sure they had no reason to deny me the cash.  This project is based on a model that is very successful for some mentors i'm working with…Maybe I've let them have too much info !!

    What annoys me is that I had the oportunity to get the cash from a private investor (paying a higher capitalised interest once the entire project was finished)…I said no to the investor because the bank offered me the cash upfront…given I'm new with the bank I wanted to develop my relationship and risk rating with them to help with future loans…

    The $50k was always meant to be Cash that I can use however I want…and once the sub-division is complete (mid Feb), I'd then use the equity in the block of land to finance the build (additional $160k needed)…This cash would be needed from Feb to August and now I'm concerned because it looks like I'll have to apply for the additional 'second loan' for the $50k i've borrowed, after the $160k has been acquire…I can already see this ain't gonna be pretty !!

    Hmmm…I've got until next week before the funds will be drawn down (will happen on my request)…so hopefully I can still get this structured better for my situation…

    (lesson learnt – no matter how soon you need the cash – don't sign the contract unless you have all of the details…happy this mistake has been made at a very early stage of my investing career, with only small figures…)

    Would love to hear any additional thoughts on where I stand / what I could do…

    Thanks All…

    Cheers,

    Darren

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
    Participant
    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    Darren

    Welcome to the world of development, time and expenditure blow outs, higher interest rates, cost increases the list goes on
    and on.

    To add to this i assume you have factored in GST and CGT on your sale.

    In essense you are wanting to obtain short term development funding at residential interest rates.

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Seems like you may have told the bank too much.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of dnh83dnh83
    Member
    @dnh83
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 81

    Hmmm…So how do you prove to the bank you have done the sum's without showing them the figures ??

    Yeah Richard, that's all been calculated…this is the first of many more to come…and I suppose I was expecting a little more from the bank than I actually got…

    I learn quickly from my mistakes, I would normally have a mentor with me but unfortunately he was OS when I signed the docs…

    As mentioned – Welcome to the World of Property Investing !!

    Thanks guys – will keep you posted  ;)

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