Just a quick ask ……………. can anyone point me in the right direction as to who (in WA) I can get information about caveats?
I cannot get legal advice because I cannot afford a lawyer & legal aid will not help.
My ex left myself & 3 children in a really bad way financially, he has refused to settle in the family court & has placed a caveat on my house (that he has never had an interest in), stating the reason "so I do not move".
I didn't even know that he had put one on it until I tried to sell the house to get out of the mortgage. However I am paying a high mortgage that I really need to be out of as he left me with a ton of debt & no income.
I feel stuck between a rock & a hard place!
I even asked him what it would take to remove the caveat. I asked him how much he wanted & he said nothing. I even tried mediation but he wont budge. I even offered him the house but he said no. What am I to do?
I have thought about walking away & letting the bank take it back & try & start again. This is a last resort but I do not know what else to do.
The mortgage is only in my name (he didn't want anything to do with it & has never lived in it). I bought the block, had the house built, did all the work on it (worked really hard) but I have had enough.
I have managed to make all of the mortgage payments so far but I need to breathe financially. If the house was sold at current market value it would have around 200k equity in it.
Any suggestions?
Go to the Legal Services Commission (or the WA equivalent) and see if you can get legal representation. Call the Law Society for their number.
There this no way you can get out of this without legal representation. And stop talking to your ex husband and trying to make deals with him. You are only going to dig yourself in a deeper hole than you are already in.
I'm sorry I sound so harsh but you REALLY need a lawyer.
Good luck
K
Hi there
you also might like to contact your local community legal centre.Often they will be able to help or refer you to a solicitor who may be prepared to help you pro bono (no cost or reduced cost perhaps when you sell your home).
When a Caveat has been lodged, you are meant to get notice of it – the particular solicitor might be able to help you with the forms to lodge a request to have it removed – what that does will actually start a legal action – because your ex husband would have to go to court (usually the Supreme Court) to uphold his Caveat.
Another option is to speak with your titles office and talk to them about lodging the similar forms to have the Caveat removed.
Ideally as has been suggested above, you do need the assistance of a lawyer. Many are prepared to forego their costs until the end of the matter.
thanksThank you Linar
Last year I went to every resource I could think of, including the ones you suggested. I spent many hours trying to get help. I have found many gross injustices in the law (not just family law) which has left many other people in shocking situations, not just myself so my "digging" has revealed much.
Lawyers are very expensive & require an upfront fee. My ex has left us purposely in a very hard place financially so that is not an option & legal aid has refused to fund me (because of the equity in my home that I cannot access). Ridiculous isn't it?
The family court can rule on a lot of this but again I need legal advice as he has refused to settle in the family court. He would now be in non compliance because I started the process of settlement a year ago (when I had a lawyer). However I do not have one now due to lack of funds & the then family lawyer milked me for what he could & did nothing (leaving me with another huge debt that they sued me for). The American model seems a more beneficial system (for us, not so much for them) as what I can glean they only get paid on a win (I think this may only be for family law, not 100% on this). It might make them try harder for their $$$$! Anyway something constructive needs to be done with the legal system in Australia as the law seems to be written by lawyers for lawyers. I found it very hard & complex trying to represent myself.
Also because this could drag on if my ex refuses to come to any kind of agreement, I have found that lawyers are reticent in taking some of the equity as payment on settlement (which would be my only option for payment at this stage). However if it did drag on, then I could lose all the equity to the lawyers so I may as well just walk out & save myself all the hassle & grief (it seems easier)!
I was advised last year not to talk to my ex anymore because he can be very agressive, manipulative & vintictive, which I now do not do & I also ignore his e-mails. I had a "moment" where I thought he would actually care enough about his children to work out an agreement for settlement.
I do not know why he is being like this because he seems to have everything he wants in life. Freedom to do what he likes when he likes with no responsibilities, a 200k + a year income (so he can also afford the lawyers), company paid accomodation, company paid new car + free fuel, a girlfriend who owns her own home & earns nearly as much as he does.
I am not asking anything from him so what is his problem? All I want is to be left alone to get on with my life & be able to use the equity in my house to invest to support my children & myself. He has already stated in an e-mail that the caveat wasn't for money but to control where I lived!
I am also studying so that I can earn a reasonable income but it all takes time. In the meantime I am locked into a high mortgage with no income. Fun!
I guess another option is that I could rent the house out & get someone else to pay the mortgage. Only problem with that is that I could lose it in the family court (if we ever get there) to the ex (or most of it) as it would then be an IP instead of our family home.
I am also looking at as many sources of income I can find, including online so if anyone has any worthwhile leads, please let me know. This seems to be the best option.
I should thank my ex really because I have grown so much as a person because of all that I have gone through over the past 2 years (so much more than what I am willing to put into a public forum). I have learnt alot too.
I do not mind working hard or doing further study to get us ahead. I will do whatever it takes. I am well past feeling sorry for myself, I hold no grudges, I just need answers.
Maybe I could write a book! There is another source of income, lol!
When I first found out about the caveat I could not believe that anyone can place a caveat on anyone's property for any reason. The law is all wrong here. If they are going to make it that easy to put on, then there should also be a system in place for compulsory mediation where a settlement can be worked out between the parties, then made into a court order without anyone having to go to court & especially no lawyers because in the end it is only the lawyers that win! A time limit on caveats would be a good idea as well because as far as I am aware, there is none at this time.
Hello Raddles
Thank you for your input.
I have done every one of those options you suggested, last year when I was trying to find out what I could do.
I was not notified because my ex husband had put down his PO Box address as my postal address. I only found out when I tried to sell the house to get out of debt etc. It was good that the RE Agent was a friend so he was really good about it all as I had to withdraw it from sale.
The titles office were no help either as they said it could only be removed through court (family court can also make an order to do this). It was also going to cost me a small fortune to find out the reason for the caveat (I still do not know what reason he gave, I only have what he put in the e-mail as mentioned in my last post).
Hi there
it is possible to get a copy of the caveat – by ordering a search via sites such as Citec confirm – you get a copy of your title first then get the reference number to get a copy
you could do this online or you could talk to your titles office – and see if you can get a copy over the counterif you can't afford a lawyer – it is still possible to undertake the matter yourself in the family court – there are a lot of self represented people who do get assistance along the way
why not talk to one of the Registrars at the Family Court to see if they will suggest how to resolve your matter
see if you can get a mediation happeningtry again at the community legal centres – you may get someone different this year who can help you
thanksWhen a caveat is lodged you must state the reason for lodging. You would need to put the Act you are relying on, not just vague comments like "so you don't move". So if this hasn't been comlpied with it may be relatevely easy to remove. Maybe approaching the land titles office in person will do – But he may still have grounds to lodge the caveat under the Family Law Act due to the fact that you were spouses – he just hasn't worded it correctly. If you could remove it, even temporarily, it may enable you to sell.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Hello Terryw
Thank you for your reply. The statement about 'not wanting me to move' was what he sent in an e-mail as the reason for the caveat. He is far too savvy to put that on the caveat itself. I actually think that his lawyer did it on his behalf. I will endevour to find out.
I may have to represent myself in the family court to get it dealt with as Raddle suggested. I find it all very complicated & the paperwork unnecessary. Maybe I can scrape together enough to just get some legal advice & help with an affidavit etc & then represent myself.
Raddle, the Community Legal Centre did try to help me last year but they are so overwhelmed with clients needing their help & so undermanned that they really weren't much help at all. Also they cannot handle anything as complex as my case.
I tried to mediate with my ex last year but he wouldn't comply & I have also asked him what money he wanted from the house if I sold it. He replied that he didn't want anything. The only conclusion I can come up with is that he is just trying to make my life as difficult as possible. For what reason, I really do not know.
Hi again
just wondering if you have ever tried to talk with one of the Registrars of the Family Court – incidentally was your matter running in the Federal Magistrates Court or the Family Court? – because often Registrars are very good at getting people to sit down and actually work through problem areas – actually tell people they are being unreasonable (and if it gets before Justice… you won't get that – sort of deal)If your ex is not complying with requirements – it is possible to take enforcement action.
Once again – if you can't get a lawyer involved – get some of the DIY packs sent to you from the Court – you could start the basics – then perhaps use the lawyer to tidy things up for you.
If the community legal centres are not able to assist you – they still may be able to refer you to a solicitor who can take you on pro bono – or who is prepared to get paid at the end of the matter (they are often women solicitors)
keep trying
the alternative is to default on your loan and have the bank sell the property from under you (which really is not a satisfactory option)
thanksthere is a web site http://www.justanswer.com they have lawyers from australia one is from perth w.a.named Maurice Oteri and he answered a question for me.
So you could try this site for an answer to your questions for a tiny fee of say $20.00 hope this helps
from sandy26-64I know virtually nothing on this topic but one thing that jumped out at me was he has but false information on the application. By him listing your address as his post office box he has made a false statement. To prove this you will need a copy of the application or some other evidence. I'm not sure whether you could look at the criminal side of things if this is the case
Thanks guys
I have exhausted just about every avenue I can think of, including the ones suggested in this topic.
He is just about being vintictive, there is no other reason for this. He has now resorted to underhanded tatics to take the children (against their will – they are teenagers now) & now he is talking about going after my property! I really dont care anymore. It is the children that I am concerned for.
It is about time that he got over himself & got on with his life & let everyone else get on with theirs.
I wonder if he got everything his own way would he be satisfied then? I think not, lol!
Anyway the value of the property has dropped & I haven't been able to maintain it so it doesn't have that much equity in it now.
Anyone want a 2 1/2 year old house in a super suburb (probably one of the fastest growing areas in WA – even in this economic climate) at below cost? lol!
At least I was able to negotiate with the bank to bring the repayments down to a more managable level so that was good. Thank God for lower interest rates!
I think that if I just got out of it at least he would leave us alone then (hopefully). I actually feel like he has been stalking me because he has been secretly taking photos of my house & placing them in nasty e-mails to me & carbon copying to the lawyers etc. I think he has lost the plot!
The children & I have lived in the house for 2 1/2 years now. He has never lived there nor is his name on the title!
If I get out of it, I can always start again. Only I wont make the mistake of having assets in my own name in future!
What are the chances of you moving into a rental and renting out your house? It gets him off your back as you are no longer in the house, you have a renter in the house ie not his ppor or anything else as there is a lease in place to confirm that he doesn't live there and you have someone contributing to the mortgage & your tax deductions.
He sounds like a real asshole. just start thinking like him and start screwing with his life with out him knowing its you. you must have some dirt on him.
does he own a home maybe he owes you money 50% put a caveat on his house but be carefull as he has money and he can react
Make sure you print those emails off that he has sent you as with him saying he has put a caveat on your house to control where you live i dont think is good enough and a judge would probaly throw it out also like gibbo1 says about how he has used his po box as the postal address is also a big no no, little bits and peices like that can win you the case.
it sounds like hes just playing with you because he can.
Maybe you should go and sit in a few court hearings and see how it all works and build up your confidence and then go and represent your self in court make sure you take the emails.Thats just somethings i would probaly do if i was in your position but you do what you think is best for you and that will work for you.
Iam thinking you can get rid of that caveat reasonably easyScott No Mates, I did think about renting out the property but rentals here (for me to rent another place) are really high & to get a place as big (need the bedrooms) & as nice as mine (especially in the area it is in) would cost far more than what I am currently paying on my mortgage, which would put me in a worse position financially. Plus I would have to do all the bits of maintenence that now need doing (more cost). Even just getting the bedrooms I would need for all of us, even in a not so nice area is really expensive to rent here! Demand far outstrips supply. Also in some areas & also in Perth, there are many areas where potential tenants are bidding on properties to try & secure a rental! Totally illegal but it is happening here all the time. So even being able to rent a place here is dicey at best. There are no guarantees & waiting lists are long.
Also I really do not think that it would solve the problem, it is about me owning a property (or anything else for that matter). At the moment it is mine & the children's family home & why he is trying to get the children removed through the family court. I have also come across some shocking abuses of power re: the family court that my ex is trying to use to his advantage now. Like what was already mentioned, he has the money to do it whereas I have not been successful in getting any kind of legal representation nor even legal advice (to represent myself) as it seems that lawyers these days want it all or nothing! If you do not have the money to pay them (& upfront) …………….. too bad! The ICL is hopeless as well & is definitely siding with my ex instead of looking out for the children's best interests, which is what he is supposed to be doing! He has already ignored several damning reports regarding the welfare of the children when they were with my ex!
Keiko, that is putting it mildly ………………. I do actually have evidence on him, (concerning back taxes & also fraud) but he is so vindictive (I have witnessed this many times with other people & even towards his own family) that he would try & make it all about me. He has done this to me on many occasions. He uses threats to get his own way. (Now he is using the courts to get his own way). Using them to bully myself & my children. He has tried to blackmail me many times into giving him what he wants – total control over my life …………… we are divorced, I wish he would just leave us alone!
He refuses to own any property, (probably why he resents me for having any). He has a car (that he doesn't use because his company has given him a new one plus all the free fuel he wants) that he manipulated me to signing over to him (yes it was in my name & paid for). I know silly me but he is very good at manipulation! I would go so far as to say – a professional! I do not know what else he may have etc as he has kept everything as secretive as possible including where he is living (his apartment is also company provided, I know that much).
I just cannot be devious like he is. It is not in my nature to do it & he knows it. I have just been so naive where he is concerned. My only concern now is for the children as he has a history of violence & he made threats towards them last year when they wouldn't do what he wanted.
However when the only recourse is to use a corrupt system (family court) that is all about money (for the lawyers) & if you have it, you can do what you want ……………… there will never be any true justice for families.
I thought about sitting in the court to get more experience except I do not have the time as I also home educate my 3 children. One has had a learning difficulty & another a disability & this was the only way that they were ever going to get the best education for them that wasn't going to cost a fortune. My ex is also trying to put a stop to this as well.
This is only the tip of the iceberg ………………….. you wouldn't believe what tactics he is manipulating the courts into doing! It is totally unjust & I have talked to other families who have not been forced to go through these extreme measures! Like I said, I am being totally bullied from all sides!
Does anyone know anything about settlement? The 12 months is up after our divorce next month. What happens if we do not settle by then?
Have you tried any of the pro-bono lawyers? They cost you nothing and take their fee out of whatever they win eg Keddies but they have had some bad press?
Hey there,
I'm not a lawyer and I don't know the WA law particularly well, but I've had some experience in these matters. When lodging any caveat, you need to have a good, provable reason for doing so. Usually, it's to prepresent some sort of interest in a property whether it be equity or debt.
To quote "Where an improper Caveat is lodged, Section 138 of the TLA states the Registered Proprietor may summon the Caveator to appear before the Supreme Court or a Judge in chambers, to show cause why the Caveat should not be withdrawn. NOTE: Where a Caveat is lodged without reasonable cause, the law provides that the Caveator may be liable to pay compensation for damage caused."
I'm not sure what the cost would be to file in the Supreme Court, but I believe that you can do this yourself should you wish to – you'll just need to do some research and a lot of reading before hand to prepare. Getting a copy of the caveat is a good idea as it will arm you with the particulars.
For more information on caveats in WA, go to:
http://www.landgate.wa.gov.au/docvault.nsf/web/INF_LG_Lodging_a_Caveat_update_20080407/$FILE/INF_LG_Lodging_a_Caveat_update_20080407.pdfBest of luck.
Hi
Just wanted everyone to know that I finally got the caveat removed from my property. It took awhile but patience won out in the end. It was quite simple once I was able to find out how to do it.
It cost me $220 & I ended up getting a property settlement agency to fill out the application to lodge at the Landgate office (for a 28 day application). This meant that he had 28 days from receiving the notification of the application to object.
He had to go to the Supreme Court to do this but it is expensive to do that & he has run out of excess funds now so he didn't object. Also he owes his lawyer a packet so the lawyer has dropped him.
I also found out that once a caveat has been removed it cannot be placed back on the property.
It is still ongoing but I can now at least see a light at the end of the tunnel.
Thank you for all the suggestions & support.
Hello There,
This scenario happened to a friend of mine last month.
If your absolutely sure that he has no grounds to your house, then this is what she did to solve.
– Spoke to bank, found out about the Caveat, and was as suprised as you
– The bank advised her to to write a stat dec and submit to govt office (Sorry I cannot remember which office it was)
– The Caveat was removed about 5-6 days later.
In that scenario, it was her boyfriend.Apparently anybody that has a legal powers or bothers to invest in a lawyer can do this to anyone (I was quite surprised also)
However the process for removing it was not as complicated as it sounded either. Just troublesome.
For a house though well worth the effort.Sorry to be so vague, Hope it helps.
I am amazed that someone can put a caveat on someone elses house!
I am wondering now why the small business man who is owed funds from the rich man on hill doesnt put a caveat on his home?
A tenant could do this to the home they rent so that the landlord cannot sell and thus they secure a long term rental opportunity..
hmm.. crazy
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