Hi
My partner and I recently made an offer on a house for sale. The agent refused to write the offer up, even after I asked him twice, as he said it was offensive.
We put in an offer 20% below the asking price and I believe it was a reasonable offer given the current market and all the research I had done. He basically started getting all emotional and angry trying to bully us. We stuck to our offer & told him he was obligated to present it. He reckons he would be unprofessional if he did. After 20 mins of him ranting I'm unsure whether he was going to present the 'verbal' offer or not.
While I can appreciate he knows his clients, but surely his clients deserve the right to make up their own minds.
We're now left wondering did he or didn't he? If I call does it look desperate. Chances are they'll say no, but we thought that anyway. The idea was to get them thinking and if they still haven't sold in the upcoming weeks/months they may call us back & want to talk.
Does anyone know where we stand on this?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Contrary to popular belief that the agent MUST present ALL offers to the vendor, if the vendors have said that they don't want to be presented with offers under $XXX then the agent does not need to present offers under $XXX. Having said that, most REA will let the vendor know of all offers (especially in a market like now) so that the vendors get an idea of what the market thinks their property is worth.
Call the director of the REA and check that your offer has been presented. Alternatively do a LTO search to find out who the vendors are and approach them directly and tell them that the REA refused to present your offer.
In this market 20% under market isn't necessarily offensive.
Cheers
K
Thanks K.
I had heard of that ruling too.
I'm going to give him a few more days to contact me as he did finish off saying he would be in touch. So he gets the benefit of the doubt now. Then if we still haven't heard anything we had decided to contact the owners direct via a letter to let them know we had presented an offer but they may not have been notified & to speak to their agent. At least they can then make us their own minds.
Cheers.
Hi Rellie,
One could liken that to making first bid at an auction of $50k, when the property is worth 1 mil .. i've done it several times.. it's not offensive, it's an offer – something to get the ball rolling, and is better than nothing.
The agent must be new, or have little idea of negotiation, either or.
I picked up a property a month ago 25% below asking price… because the offer was made, and the agent knew to negotiate on both sides to a happy medium – which is their job.
Good luck!
Linar wrote:Contrary to popular belief that the agent MUST present ALL offers to the vendor, if the vendors have said that they don't want to be presented with offers under $XXX then the agent does not need to present offers under $XXX.The agent may not have mentioned that the vendor has already knocked back offers above the offer that you submitted.
Of course the 'out' here for the REA is that the offer must be in the best interest of the vendor, so they may not necessarily need to present every offer. The offer will have more weight if you have submitted it to the agent in writing (with an expiry date).
Thanks that's a great idea. We might try that.
If you don't insult them on your first offer, Then you offered to much.
In years to come, People will be crying how they didn't take offers they got for -20% asking price….. When the bank is selling them up for 50% discount
Scott No Mates wrote:Linar wrote:Contrary to popular belief that the agent MUST present ALL offers to the vendor, if the vendors have said that they don't want to be presented with offers under $XXX then the agent does not need to present offers under $XXX.The agent may not have mentioned that the vendor has already knocked back offers above the offer that you submitted.
Of course the 'out' here for the REA is that the offer must be in the best interest of the vendor, so they may not necessarily need to present every offer. The offer will have more weight if you have submitted it to the agent in writing (with an expiry date).
Totally agree,
Agents tend to take you far more seriously if the offer is on paper.
I never ever make verbal offers or even offers in an email. I always draw up an offer on a Sales and Purchase agreement myself, and then present it to the agent (either via fax or more recently as an attachment to an email)
Writing up your own S&P agreements also assures me that the clauses and terms that I want are in the agreement unchanged. As if agents re-write your offers themselves, their missing out of one little word in one of your clauses can completely change how the clause works. So be careful with that one.
The agent must be hopeless, in this market getting any offer is good, he should be presenting them all. With any negotiation you have to start somewhere. The agent only gets paid when he/she sells it, and in this enviroment they may not get another offer, or maybe not a higher one.
One thing I always remind agents is, that they always use to say that quite often 'the first offer is the highest one' and I have seen this to be true many many times.
It all helps condition the agents
Hi, Rellie
We had a similar experience as yours as well. Recently put in an written offer for a 'renovator's delight' around 6% below the lowest asking price range directly to the Vendor. The agent contact me a few days later, and in an angry tone, informed that the Vendor was only interested in an auction. The property got sold at the auction for way above what we would be expected to be reasonable to emotional buyers.
The point is that even though an agent is 'obliged' to forward all offers, many do not forward offers that are below the expectation of the Vendor. Most agents are happy to sugar coat ther dealing with vendors, put in minimal work and hope a generous buyer offers something above expectation (There are plenty of generous FHBs at the moment). One agent has even told me in an email that to submit our offer would be an embarassment for them.
I think keep on putting in offers and when you meet a good agent, you stand a really good chance of securing a deal. That was how we got our PPOR back in Aug 07.
Regards
Daniel Leedaniellee wrote:I think keep on putting in offers and when you meet a good agent, you stand a really good chance of securing a deal. That was how we got our PPOR back in Aug 07.
Thats the key, finding those agents that just treat it as a numbers game. Some of the best deals i have done have been thru the agents that def dont work for the vendor. They work soley for themselves and they really dont care what price the property sells for, as long as it sells (and they get paid)
Agents that think like this are great, as they are just focused on pumping the deals thru. As they realise that the difference in their commission cheque is very little, on a sale at below the true market value. It might be a difference of say $40k in sale price, but they may only reduce their commission by $400-800, when their commision will be $7-9k, (depending on their offices commission structure) It doesnt really matter.
I even remind agents of this, and I ask them if they are the 'listing agent' or just the "selling agent" as if they are not the listing agent, in most cases their commssion % is less. So then do the calculation in front of them, and tell them that if the vendor accepts my offer, it is only worth say $400 less to their commission. This helps get the agent on side, and gets them focused on a smaller figure of $400, rather than the bigger figure of $40,000.
When you combine an agent that thinks like this, and a vendor that is more motivated than average, this is when you can start buying very well indeed.
This is such a fun game
kiwi property guy well said. Ive made plenty of offers and i no lots have not been presented to the vendor's but to me the agent is a fowl not to present the offer because you just dont no what the vendor will really take in today's market and my offer is proberly lower than most which if the agent took the offer to the vendor and even if the vendor says no then the next offer the agent takes to the vendor will probaly look like gold and the agent will probaly sell that property.
But anyway the agent is suppose to present all offers and sometimes if they don't i make contact with the vendor and tell them whats going on and what my offer is and in one case the vendor took my offer and told the agent to stick his commision up his >>>keiko wrote:kiwi property guy well said. Ive made plenty of offers and i no lots have not been presented to the vendor's but to me the agent is a fowl not to present the offer because you just dont no what the vendor will really take in today's market and my offer is proberly lower than most which if the agent took the offer to the vendor and even if the vendor says no then the next offer the agent takes to the vendor will probaly look like gold and the agent will probaly sell that property.
But anyway the agent is suppose to present all offers and sometimes if they don't i make contact with the vendor and tell them whats going on and what my offer is and in one case the vendor took my offer and told the agent to stick his commision up his >>>Yes this can be very frustrating Keiko. After conditioning the agent in the way i mentioned above, if I still can't get them to play ball. I then do as you have done and directly approach the vendor. Some vendors are horrified to hear that their agent hasn't presented an offer. As you mentioned, who knows what someone will really take in this type of market – Many vendors don't actually tell the agent how bad their finacial situation really is, as they initially would like to get as much as they can for the property – But eventually get to the situation where they dont have the ability to wait for a better sales price – they just need it sold!
Nice one mate – Get into it, there are some great deals out there.
Same here if you want to put in an offer and you verbally say I will offer X and it is to low the Agent will say – No I have been instructed not to present anything less than Y".
So you are wasting your time if you want to present a real low offer unless you have cash and can pay now.
PosEnterprises wrote:Same here if you want to put in an offer and you verbally say I will offer X and it is to low the Agent will say – No I have been instructed not to present anything less than Y".So you are wasting your time if you want to present a real low offer unless you have cash and can pay now.
Or at least make it appear that you have cash and can pay now
I still always want to have an out, as i generally make my offers sight unseen. My contracts appear to be a 'Cash Buyer' so the vendor thinks 'cool, finance isnt an issue' as failure to get finance is probably the #1 reason contracts fall over.
But believe me i still have a clause that can get me out, if need be.
It is a bit unrealistic to buy property in sydney with CASH
god_of_money wrote:It is a bit unrealistic to buy property in sydney with CASHYes I fully agree, it pretty much is any where. When we use the term 'CASH buyer' in property, it means that finance is already arranged (preapproved) Not Cash as in we will pay with cash (without the need for a mortgage)
It simply says to the vendor that we already have the finance sorted, and that we dont need a 'subject to finance' clause put in the contract. Or we are not 'subject to sale of existing home' Many other purchasers are subject to one of these.
This makes our offer much more attractive to vendors and Agents.
posenterprises, you only waste your time if you have been offering constantly for weeks or even months on end and dont get a deal, but if you offer over a 12 month period and pick up 3 or 4 deals well thats not bad. i basicly try for 1 deal every 2 months but sometimes you might strike 3 or 4 deals in that time.
theres thousands of houses for sale so its not hard to find real good deals where theres cash to be made
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