Is property the real answer?

OK, conscription and the military.  I think we gotta get our guys the best stuff, even if it is expensive.  And I agree, conscription could be an excellent character building excersise for our youth.  Bit hard to lump all of the problems of todays youth on the military though, and I agree, no govt would ever bring it in.  Pity.  Personally, I think the gap year idea used in the UK should be encouraged here.  I went working on stations in the NT when I was 16 – had the time of my life.  Got drunk, got into a bit of trouble, learnt alot about life, worked hard and was a million miles from hard drugs or any real danger (unless you counted the bulls and the horses that bucked).  Should be more of it.  Kids living with Mum and Dad until their late 20's – when do they grow up and get some character? 
I digress,  the military.  Sure, revolutionise the military beauracracy and make the administration of the machine more cost effective, but give our blokes the good gear.  My brother is a special forces commando, recently returned from Afghanistan, and I gotta say they are fighting an important fight over there.  Those extremists are NASTY and we certainly want to nip that one in the bud over there rather than let them get any more of a start on their whole take over the world, kill all enemies ideas.

Yeah, sure I'm a bit outback based.  That's what I know.  Might as well stick to that, hey.  Besides, our new party is going to need a rural policy expert.  Sounds good.  $200K please (pa plus benefits, travel allowances, private jet (the outback is a big place) and super).

cheers
s

Have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread.  Have had a good laugh and discovered that others are on the same waive length as myself.  

Can I just add one of my favourite pet hates to the brainstorming list:-

Can people please get back to basics and take responsibility for their own actions and circumstances ie the push for paid maternity leave for mothers.  Who is going to pay for this?  The Government only uses the taxpayers money, there is no Government money without taxpayers.  There is also not much Government money without small business – who should not be required to fund peoples decision to have children.  In my opinion, there are too many handouts/benefits these days and people have been conditioned into believing that they are entitled/deserving of taxpayer funding – my parents taught me long ago ' you make your bed, you lie in it'.

Now, how many of you have been tempted to actually check out http://www.Costa-RicaRealEstate.com ?  

Couldn't agree more.

I don't know what they need, but I reckon if they need more planes, better planes, subs whatever, they should have it.  Not just a state of the art field kit.  My brother's descriptions of what air support does, and how skilled those pilots are are pretty hair raising.  Can't remember the numbers, but it goes something like this:  You've been caught out after dawn, still in enemy territory (normally you try to get out before daylight, but maybe your prisoner is dragging the chain, or you have somone wounded with you), your position is compromised and you, being an elite, fast moving force, don't have the numbers to dig in and fight it out (your armed to the teeth, but there's only about 6 of you and the badies are gathering some pretty big numbers seeing as they've heard there are some caught out white fellas ready for a roasting).  You need someone to save your  butt, so you get on the radio and ask for air support.  Jets come in at, what 800kmph (I don't know how fast, but they're fast), scream over your head at about 100m (again, I don't know how low, but he reckons they're pretty low), and drop a cr*pload of firepower on the badies 100m away.  There's now nothing much left of the bad guys, what is left is backing off and you can go back to base now.  Now, if you were my brother, I reckon you'd want those pilots in the best machines on earth.  Besides, I don't actually think 10M is an awful lot for one of those machines. 

Actually, Devo, my brother gives me the impression that Australia manufactures a bit of military equipment, which is sold to the international forces.  Apparantly the bushmaster is pretty popular, and kicks some but.

I agree, conscription could never work.  But todays youth could really do with some character building somewhere along the line.  Of course they're not all drugies.  Even on this site we see an encouraging number of ambitious young people.  But in terms of turning out well rounded young people, I reckon they need a challenge. I don't know what the answer is. 

Trouble with the modern military (and especially consription) is that, living in a time of equal oppurtunity, consripted males could argue (possibly rightly) that females should also be consripted into combat roles. Also, why should the old age groups 18-35 still apply when we are living longer and the retirement age is going up?

Consription wouldn't work in a society where individual rights are so paramount and you can't take away the rights of a subsection without taking away the rights of the whole of society. Don't have an answer, just putting it out there.

Israel has compulsory army service and it works over there. When we get in charge will fix it.

Is property the answer or is just a method to get wealthy that happens for a few?

A good question and perhaps you could find the answer by having a read of 2008 BRW Rich List.
Of the Rich 200 on the list, Property was the #1 wealth builder!
52 – property
25 – retail
25 – investment
18 – financial services
14 – services
13 – manufacturing
12 – resources
10 – rural
9 – media
8 – transport
7 – technology
4 – entertainment
3 – construction

Its times like these that the sage advice of J Paul Getty comes to mind:

"Buy when everyone is selling and hold until everyone else is buying. This is not merely a a catchy slogan. Its the very essence of successful investoment" (J Paul Getty 1976).

Pipelinebuilder

An excellent post mate. Makes people stop and think out side of the box.  A few comments on A, B ,C.

A:   "The one comment that didn't come through was, how many people do you personally know that are financially free  from        property investment?, lets be honest about it!!!!, or is i have a friend that made so and so during the boom time!!!"

From the Section 32s (Vendors Statements) I look at not many people own their PPOR or Investment property out right. I understand most people are still paying interest on them till they retire and hope to pay it out with their super, hey, what super. I meet people that stick out their chest and say " we made 100,000k on that place" brought in 1999 sold in 2006. I call them the bogan rich. Sure they made money but it was all luck due to timing and the bank lending money to anyone with a head that could write their name. It was not skill or smart investment knowledge. This was the boom time. Now its over. Also you only hear about the money makers not the money loosers. Why do they have mortgagee auctions, its not because the vendor is financially free.

B:     "My wife used to work for one of the largest property companys here in aus, from what we have seen most people dont make it, the professionals will and do because they have cashflow, the rest just hope and speculate based upon the opinions of others. Thats the truth and bottom line."

Agree, If you have to borrow 70 -80% of the value even at 5% you are behind the 8 ball. If historically property rises at 7-10% and you are paying 5% interest, net profit is too small for me. Yes "Cash is King"  this means being debit fee. eg Not borrowing a cent.

C:      "My personal opinion is this, you need to decide how you want to live, ie how much do you need and what would you like to do with your time then go after it, maybe it  is property, shares, business, they seem to be the main three that people follow."

Its my opinon life style is a choice and a big part of an investment strategy. You are a long time dead and you don't want to be the richest man in the cemetery.  Eg. open a cafe, be there 7 days a week, lock up at 11.00pm each night and be back at 10.00am the next day for lunch service. Shares, buy ANZ at $17.00 then see them drop to $12.00 (have not looked lately) You have no control over the directors or the running of the business. Business, Imports buy with US dollars at .80 cents Aust. OK  great, but try it at .65 cents, your down .15 cents in the dollar before you start. Then no one has the expendable income to buy the stuff off you anyway. Retail is down shops are desperate to sell you something.  Then you have to compete with the big guys anyway.

Any one can make money in the good, Boom times. But it takes allot more guts, determination and self confidence in the hard times. Getting over the fear you mentioned. Lets not be too hard on our selves we are in one of the most uncertain, unpredictable economic  times in history and its global.

This is only MPO as we are exchanging ideas & brainstorming. I don't believe you will get rich in the next 5 years on property. In fact more chance of loosing money or breaking even. Some late comers are still hoping to catch some of the wave of 2 years ago and get the high returns. If you buy well and I mean really well, location, price, type and have some luck & allot of cash as well then you can still make better than bank interest after tax.  

Just one more thought for tonight, some of the most happiest people I know don't even own their own home, they rent. They are not under financial stress or going grey with worry about interest rates or falling share prices. They Spend quality time with their kids & wife and live with in their means. They are certainly not worried about "missing out" on a bloody FHOG of 17,000 to end up with a 25 year bank loan. Conversely some of the biggest pretentious assholes I know have 2 or 3 investment properties and a 2 story McMansion with pool and the RV. They work 2 or 3 jobs and are the meanest, penny pinching so and so,s I know. What Im saying is its not all about making money its about enjoying it also.

Cheers & regards to all.

T……………

I know no one who made themselves retirement rich through property alone.  Re the post with the BRW rich list, I bet if you added all those different business categories together, then business, as a broad banner, would be the number one way to get rich.

But this thread has taken a slightly down in the mouth turn, don't you think?  Let's brainstorm ideas about what we can all do now to improve our personal wealth.

I'll start:
1: Education.  I need to learn more about this carbon trading thing and what those new laws are going to mean for business and the economy.  Is there an opportunity there?

2: Keep payng off the debt.  Expecting strong cattle prices later in the  year = sell most of our herd and pay out part of the investment home loan.  (This will also lower our running costs, easing our cashflow, as it costs a bit of money to hold cattle)

3: Community service.  I volunteer my time to teach choir at the local school.  We are a small outback community and they didn't until I started, have any musical activities at all.  It is one of the most rewarding things I do all week.

4: Grow my veges.  Fresh fruit and veg is very dear here, and mostly impossible to get good quality.  Growing a small vege patch saves me a bucket loat, and, along with collecting the eggs from the chooks, it is a real feel good thing.  Out there in the sun, turning over the dirt and planting stuff, then bringing it in and feeding it to my family.

5:  Teach my kids about the wonder and beauty of nature.  We bought bug collectors the other day.  My kids are 4yrs and 2yrs, and they are a real hit.

My point.  Echoing what quite a few of the previous posters have said, QUALITY of LIFE.  I'll keep learning, and positioning myself to be ready for the next opportunity.  But I'm also going to do little things that bring me and my family great QUALITY of life. 

Hi pipeline builder

My husband and I have achieved "financial independence" through property and property alone.  I use the inverted commas because we still have to work to pay for our lifestyle but our work is property development and we only need to do 1 – 2 builds per year to pay our way and increase our wealth.

We started out at the beginning of 2004, just before I left work to have our first child.  My husband stopped work at the end of 2006 and hasn't gone back to paid employment since.  We could just do nothing and live off the interest from our equity (most of which has been realised because we have sold off a lot of stuff) but it wouldn't give us enough money to play with.  And besides, I love property.  I find the deals, sort finance etc and my husband liaises with our builder on the technical stuff that goes over my head.  The rest of the time my husband plays on the farm that we bought a couple of years ago.

So some people on the forum may argue that technically I am not financially independent, but I can say that I basically do what I want, when I want it and I have absolutely no concerns about the financial crisis impacting significantly on us.  I consider myself financially free and my husband, who drives around the farm with a couple of little kiddies on a trailer on the back of whatever he is driving, certainly considers himself financially (and emotionally and spiritually) free.

Cheers

K