I am intersted to get anyones feedback regarding what they feel is a better learning forum if I am comparing Dean Parkers one day seminar to the Reno Toolbox offer online.
For value for money it does not seem much different with approx $795 for seminar and $695 for toolbox although I live in Adelaide so there will be additional travel expeneses incured for me.
I am just starting out so if anyone has experience with both or has an opinion on the pros and cons of either or I would apprciate your opinion on which would be a better learning forum.
Thanks
It all comes to how you best learn and what's your motivation to get into property.
Personally, I find books, articles and someone to show me around the best learning practice. However, is not alway possible or feasible to have someone to show you or to read the book that apply exactly to your situation.
Seminars are good since they provide social interaction and mostly emotional speakers. Very little information comes from seminars, including "3 Mega Conferences". Most of the useful information, you need to dig it up yourself. Possibly because it is very difficult to satisfy 700+ attendees.
If you are just starting out, READ the most books you can from your local library and only when you had mastered the basic understanding of property investing, then go to your closest seminar to discuss your planned strategy and make the most of the seminar.
Good luck,
G
Hi Hi,
I went to the Melb seminar AND have the reno toolkit.
First things first – did you know that the reno toolkit is out of stock? The new version is coming out around December this year so i'd wait if i was you.
Basic Rundown of both:
Toolkit (the important bits) are: The reno control spreadsheet and the dvd case studies.
The reno control spreadsheet is a spreadsheet that allows you to go through every single room in the house and from top to bottom and note what needs to be changed, how many of each (for example light switches x 4 – input price for 1 light switch and it will calculate it all). Technically – if you're quite a detailed person and good with excel – then you don't need this BUT if your'e not – it's quite handy.
What i found in value is really the DVD case studies. Dean and David go through 4 properties and talk about what they bought it for then go through room by room what they're going to do and then how much roughly what their reno's cost if that helps. It gives you ideas on what can be done – what you're not going to get your money back on and what are "great" returns on renos.Seminar:
So in the renotoolkit you get a booklet about how to quickly work out by numbers whether or not a property is going to return any profit. In the seminar this is fleshed out very well. They go through those calculations and more.
They go through 3 examples from memory on renovations they did – what they did and what they didn't do and how much they spent.
The real value i found is actually (from the advertisment) is the "templates" that they gave. It goes through thoroughly what you must know prior to purchasing the property – if you haven't filled out those templates – then technically you could be buying on "best case scenario" rather than buying on "worse case scenario – that still yields a profit".
These templates have allowed "after the seminar" with no hand holding and instead use these as a guide for a good renovation buy.If you are to consider renovations as your strategy – then i would consider going to the seminar. The people that went varied – some had not done it before, some were builders that knew how to renovate but didn't have a systematic approach that hence went overtime and "lost" money so it doesn't really matter what stage you're at – it was still a good overall introduction for someone who's just starting and needs to get it right.
To date – having used their templates and after going to their seminar- i've looked at over 25 properties and think i may be on to one. But had i not had these templates – i might have just bought something just cause it "sort of could" make money which can be quite dangerous and that's why people lose money.
Another thing that i learnt which is really important is that – Dean & Elise STILL have problems with trades people. I think that imagined that everything for them is perfect from all their experience but it's not that way – it's just that they have the systems in place to make sure that when problems occur they have the processes in place to solve them quickly and still be on budget.
On another topic and sorry to drag you away from the propertyinvesting.com website – there's also renokings.com.au – who's strategy came from doing renos. I was considering going to this and this is for people who need the more practical and visual hands on approach – http://renos.com.au/best-and-worst/ – this is where they take 40 people on a bus and go around to Brisbane and look at 25 houses with different scenarios and tell you what has been done exactly to "fix up/renovate" the place.
So to end off (and i know it's quite a long post), if you're serious about renovations as a strategy and that it can work in the areas you're looking for do the figures course (Dean & Elise) which is very important to know you're making $$$ and then go for the bus tour to see how it's done.
Hope this helps.
Let me know if you need any further information (PM if you like).
Good luck with everything.
Vicky
Thanks Gio
I appreciate your time. I actually posted this in a different forum and had similar feedback and I certainly agree with what you have said.
I think also I did not make word my question very well to get the actual information I was looking for. I gues I was hoping to hear from someone regarding this specific course and see what they thought of the course content as aposed to the online toolbox and get a comparison of each. It maybe that they are both as good as each other or someone may have an opinion that suggets one is clearly better than the other. I am definately going to do one of the two but just trying to make an informed decison as to which one.
Thanks again for your help Gio
Hi Vicky
Thanks for the post, that was great and excatly the kind of information I was looking for.
Are you happy to share with me, have you done any renos prior to course or toolkit?? Or any after each, I know you mentioned looking at 25 and having maybe one on the go but just curious to see if thats where you started or has there been others. Do you also beleive after doing course that there is money to be made in renos and do you think there are plenty of deals out there or very few that offer the right returns
Also for Vicky or anyone one else do you have an opinion on renos Vs Developments as a strategy
Hi Pecko,
To answer your questions:
1. Nope – no renos prior to the course/toolkit
2. It has been hard finding the margins in renos. I've been looking in Sydney/City market, then i'm looking in Western Sydney (near Penrith if you're a city sider). I think i may have found one but still negotiating at the moment.
3. I have been looking in Sydney Newtown – there is definately no money to be made in renovations at first glance – one house on the street sells for $565k UNLIVEABLE, then the other across the street RENOVATED sells for $610k – where's the money there??But to give you a brief rundown how Dean & Elise's numbers work so you can look at deals yourself:
Assumptions:
10% interest rate/annum
95% Loan
Buy Price 100%
Acquision 5%
Reno Cost 10% (of buy price)
Hold Costs 5% (based on 6 month hold of property)
Profit 10% (of buy price)
Sell Cost (4% of Buy Price for agents fees)So if you looked at it as real numbers (examples only)
Buy Price = $200,000
A = $10,000
Reno = $20,000
Hold = $10,000 (6 months)
Profit = $20,000
Sell = $8000
Which means that after the renovation you have to be able to sell at (all these figures added together) = $268000.
Therefore, based on these figures, when looking at renovation "houses" ignore what they're asking for, ASK the agent what it can be sold for AFTER the renovation.For example based on the above figures if the agent said after renovation it will sell for $220,000 – then there's no real margin if the asking price is $200,000 is there?
You need to look in areas where for a renovated house they're selling at least 1.35 times the unrenovated house. That is unrenovated is selling for $300,000 and the renovated ones are selling for at least $405,000.
Like i've said – it's been hard to find those margins but it's a quick way to calculate whether or not a house you're looking at will be able to give you the profit you're looking for.
Dean & Elise were able to find these types of areas in Melbourne! houses on the same street – unrenovated selling for $200k and unrenovated for $300+ – good for them!!
For areas where the renovated/unrenovated houses are selling for pretty much the same – then perhaps renovation isn't the strategy and instead another strategy like "Subdivisions" should be used in the area to extract better value and a better strategy as the $$$ is in the land…
Also – we have not even delved into your deposit/LVR for your loan/Capital Gains Tax (if selling less than 1 year) and not in your name) etc…there's so much to learn!!!
Hope this helps!!!
Vicky
Hi Vicky
Thanks again for your response. Again you have mentioned alot of things that have helped me to get a better understanding of what I need and want to know to move forward. I actually called Dean the other day and asked him directly some questions which obviously helpd as well. Thanks for outlining the basic concept though, I will run some numbers on some properties in Adelaide just to get an idea of how easy or hard it is to find good deals here.
I am interpreting this wrong or is it fair to say you sound slighty frustrated with the process to this point???
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