A few good points from some and a lot of bias from others.
Let me add my 2 cents.First, I worked a network marketing company (no NOT N.21) and made real money. I not longer do, found an easier way to make money.
To your comments. Network 21 is an organisation founded by Amway distributors who branched off with a new name in order to make recruiting easier. The word Amway tends to be for people like Aerogard for mozzies.
Network marketing or MLM like the American call it are companies that sell their products to their own members in stead of through a shop. They are no different from a wine club, tapperware or Avon. Direct selling from the company to the consumer where the consumer receives a commission from his own products and what ever else he sells to his own customers called "down line".
What tends to get MLM companies caught in this cloud of suspicion of being a "pyramid scheme" is their complicated commissions system, and they are complicated. I use to give seminars about the different systems and their advantages and disadvantages. Also the fact that on your whiteboard you tend to draw a sort of pyramid. Very suspicious!Actualy Network 21 learend not to do so and draw the pyramid on a side. Clever!
Another aspect of MLM companies that makes them unpalatable to a business minded person is their recruiting methods. Most of them are stuck in methods that worked in the fifties yet today are a joke. Only someone with zero business experience would even consider getting into business with them.
And so they actually target those with zero experience, with a spiel that would make Jimmy Baker proud, they will tell you a series of lies in order to get you to sing up seriously thinking that they are doing you a favour and that you have all the chances of becoming a millionaire.
Now for the positive.
If you can actually go past the moronic presentations by this self appointed pretend expert, and if you realise in time that the first big fat lie "this is not selling" is in fact a lie and that you are there to sell products or services whatever the company does, you may be able to make some money if you apply yourself as you would to a serious business, with a budget for advertising and factoring in a substantial risk.There is money to be made with MLM, it is well suited to the one with selling talents and enthusiasm with lots of connections. It is a waste of time for 99% of those recruited en mass by the likes you have seen who tell you -"if you don't have experience better", -"this is not selling", or that -"you have to ask for favours to your family to join". Your chances of success with such concepts is the same chance you would have to succeed in any other business applying the same ridiculous assumptions.
There is a very good book by a Canadian author Ann Siege, "The renegade network marketer". Worth reading if you consider getting into this line of business.Ah!
And please don't go repeating the "pyramid scheme" line. Pyramid schemes or Ponzi or chain letters or any other scam of the sort that relies on passing on to other ten people a mathematical concept in order to obtain profit from nothing at all are illegal and have nothing at all to do with MLM. If network marketing companies are a pyramid scheme then so must be Telstra and BHP.To conclude, from someone who made a living for many years from MLM, the reason 90% of people fail to make any money at all in MLM, 5% make some money but lose more, 3% make modest sums and 2% make good money, is one and one only:
The recruiting method stinks and targets the wrong people. This enourmous mass of disgrunted poeple who have been promised success by default and who should have never been pushed into it in the first place, go away bitter and with good reason and then discredit the industry and rightly so, and then post millions of negative post on the internet and some dedicate years to maintain hate-MLM websites with similar religious fanaticism to those who promote MLM as the panacea.MLM is just one more form of selling products or services, and needs a lot of time and dediction and real talent and love for selling and teamwork just like proeperty investing, or running a restaurant.
But this of course is only my personal opinion not to be taken too seriously.
PS
To the author of this discussion: the choice of words in the title could in theory attract a defamation case. I would change it or delete commercial names.
Just a suggestion.hi trev here,agree with last comment,Its definitly not a pyramid scheme as there is a product /s involved,
However if N21 operated without the product which happens to be amway then it would be .
i got asked to go to one of these meetings some 20 years ago.told of the possibility of making heaps of money.
I kept on asking what they were selling ans.notjing its just a network marketing meeting
Any how went to the meeting convinced in my mind it was amway Guess what it was.
I was cranky and got up and suggested to the spesker he and his ilk were nothing but con artists
why couldnt thier recruiters come clean when asking someone to a meeting and say it was amway
Ive actually here of churchs and other community groups being split because every one was trying to recruit everyone else
In fact one Pastor Banned the N21 from opperating in his churchPersonally, I don't agree when they say "business seminar", because it is just a marketing plan.
And look, even I am in Network-21, there is no way I like everything about it.
The truth is, Robert Kiyosaki indeed endorses Network-21.
But obviously he gets paid to speak at Network-21 seminars but perhaps not his endorsement.
From an insider's point of view, every speaker presenting at Network-21 function (or "seminar") gets paid pretty well.
Too many people needs to know the difference between pyramid schemes and network marketing.
Network marketing, put simply, is that "you set up a physical/virtual shop and have customers, and can sell personal franchises".
It is perfectly possible and very normal for you to make more than your 'upline'.A correction for the 1st post:
If you join an existing team, then everyone is the team does not necessarily get a commission of what you buy.
It depends on the structure of the team.If person A is above person B, and A only has one team, consisting of B, whereas B has 3 teams, then A only gets a certain % discount for whatever he/she buys. B gets the discount + money.
Anyway, if Amway is dodgy then the chairman of Amway wouldn't be selected as the chairman of the American's chamber of commerce.
Anyway… this is real estate forum.
Of course it would be possible to set up a real estate network marketing company.
And not necessarily selling property even when that would be interesting too.One could have building and maintenance services for sale, building materials, white goods. All dutifully overpriced of course and covered with a thin veneer of extra quality aura, in order to accomodate the multiple layers of commissions to be paid to me…I mean to the up line, plus the advertising gig to Robert
Makes me dizzy just thinking about it.
Now where oh where did I leave that fake rolex and the zirconium cuffs to wear at the meating?
Joke of course couldn't resist.PS
Trev: "However if N21 operated without the product which happens to be amway then it would be ."My father had a say that translated would go like this: " If my grandfather had wheels and a trolley he would be a tramway"
Mamma mia!
Trev,
One of the worlds first Pyramid schemes did have a product. It was stamps. It was the original Ponzi scheme.
The marketing has since evolved.The line of definition between multi level marketing and pyramid schemes is quite hard to interpret.
It's the focus that matters. If there is there more emphasis on recruitment than on selling the product or service then that is usually the difference between "legitimate" mlm business opportunities and a scam. http://network21amway.blogspot.com investigates such Network 21 and Amway claims. Could these businesses exist without such a heavy emphasis on downlines?
The answer is no. And let me tell you this – even I am in Network 21/Amway, I have to say that my uplines are not honest people at times. Here is a real example that happens literally everywhere: you bring your potential downline (let's say a 20 year old Australian, Chris, who goes to university) to your upline Peter, Peter then speaks to Chris: "hi how are you going? Is this the first time you come here? What do you do for living? Oh I know someone called Mary (now Peter points at Mary because Mary is also at the seminar) who is 19 and is also a university student, she has joined the company for less than … months and is now going to be at the 21% Silver level… if she can do it, I think you can do it too."
Now, point to note is, Mary is perhaps a downline of Peter but is not in the same 'line-of-sponsorship' (i.e. not related to) as Chris or you. This means, you cannot "ask" Mary about her business – simply because she is your 'cross-line', i.e. not related to your business or Chris's business, as I show below:
Peter
/
you Mary
/
ChrisGuess what – if you "violate the rule" and actually ask Mary "oh congratulations you have joined the business for only … months and nearly reaching 21%!!" – she would look at you so weird and say "NO?! I am barely at 3% bonus level…"
This happened to me at least once. Of course I cannot tell you the real names but this is the reason why no 'cross-lining' (as above) is allowed, i.e. you cannot ask a thing about each other's progress and status because your uplines said so – because they want to "encourage" people by not telling the truth and preventing you from finding out the truth.
And that's one of the ways how people develop downlines in Amway. Although there is no extra cost to be a member of Network21, Network21 puts "becoming rich by being a part of a team" as the central focus, which, as you said, gradually makes recruitment an emphasis.
But this is the fact with basically ALL network marketing companies and a number of internet marketing companies.
Any tips on investing in real estate and becoming rich would be great here. I can't always rely on so-called real estate 'experts' who aim to make a sale and not offering honest opinions.
You need to pay joining fees and then to progress to the next level, you need to become a 100% user, which means you need to buy the products on a monthly basis, and their products are not cheap. Then you need to sign on other people in your little pyramid and ensure that they also become 100% users. Or sell the products to other people. their products are great, but very expensive.
Not worth it!
i find it interesting how obviously smart people can disagree on the same thing to this extent.
in my view, the best judge for anything is personal experience – therefore i can not disagree with any of you.
i also believe that anything is based on the quality of people you are dealing with. ask your financial planer, accountant or real estate agent what they do with their money and then compare it to the advice they are giving you – that is a really god sign of credibility. also check out their fee structure – are they getting rewarded when you win, or is there no correlation. then look at their standard of living – that is a real sign of success, not the pictures or good/bad company names. the best way to answer all of these is meeting people in their homes…
in any case, this levaes you with one thing that you always have to rely on – gut feel. if you trust the peple who approach you – check it out and make up your own mind (while weghing up the risk profile you are comitting to if any). if there is no trust – forget it.
good people can make a pile of shit work for you financially – bad people couldn't organise a …… in a ……
(hope that wasn't too cryptic)newie
My BIL and SIL are part of the 'amway family', and I have sat through presentations on numerous occaisions. The structure is very similar to tupperware or avon.
It is what I call a semi-legitimate business. Meaning that those down the botom can work hard and earn some money, but it is really hard to be one of the 'rich' members. My BIL and SIL think it is fabulous and think that it is their way towards future money. I am a bit more sceptical, although I have on occaision bought things through amway, without signing up to the business side of things.
Basically what my BIL and SIL consider to be BIG money, is very different to me. The people they point out as doing well with Amway, are earning less then half my DH income. It is a sales job.
If people want to sign up, it is quite harmless – but it really doesn't make people rich, unless you are at the top of the business. But then isn't that the same way most jobs work???
My BIL and SIL are part of the 'amway family', and I have sat through presentations on numerous occaisions. The structure is very similar to tupperware or avon.
It is what I call a semi-legitimate business. Meaning that those down the botom can work hard and earn some money, but it is really hard to be one of the 'rich' members. My BIL and SIL think it is fabulous and think that it is their way towards future money. I am a bit more sceptical, although I have on occaision bought things through amway, without signing up to the business side of things.
Basically what my BIL and SIL consider to be BIG money, is very different to me. The people they point out as doing well with Amway, are earning less then half my DH income. It is a sales job.
If people want to sign up, it is quite harmless – but it really doesn't make people rich, unless you are at the top of the business. But then isn't that the same way most jobs work???
hi im new to this
i was doing a seach on network 21 and i wanted to know more about the so call company . at least u was told it was a business seminar i was told health and wellbeing and i went i watched to tv i saw a pyamid style bussines the man was very vague when i asked questions about network 21 after he handed me paperwork and cds and told me to listen to these in the car and at home all the time well thats when my red flags popped in my head was thinking of a book i read "combatting cult mind control".
i like to reply here to want i have found
1st it was jim dornan that founded network 21 he is based in america in the 1990s the year seem to change when u go to there website or anywhere else
2nd anything that has people sign on other people and them signing on more people, to make any sort of chain,pyamid, or pipeline that u get a % from these people that is a pyamid scheme do ur homework 1st be4 u say it is not a pyamid scam
and what i have come across from these people they r useing cult tactics
and if anyone goes to them and say what they have found on the web all negative i was told "they r all losers who did not know how to make there money work" funny how i knew he was going to say that to me i gave all the paper work and cds to a freind i wont say where she works:) funny how i know a lot of people, here my friend has already been brainwashed into network 21 that if anyone say bad about network 21 she gets rude to me and asking who told me all this i told her was all on the net but i dont think she looked.I liked it how they twisted the words i used and try to throw it back to me,( i love stopping them and making a point of exact wording:) i like the part when he told me that the company has been around 50years (almost a arugment on the phone) i replied that network 21 has not been around that long he changed his tone and goes oh not amway hmmm mind u amway did not come up.
just reading more on this post
the sign up fee hmmmmm it costs around $100 to get in and u get a few points and over $400 u get 10 points but when i was searching more it says 100 points but the man told me 10 points on the night i wonder where the other 90 points disappeared to.
now
in 1994 in the parliment of new south wales, australia, the minister for consumer affairs was question regarding the methods used by amway and n21 , to which the minister replied saying that the complaints and evidence were too few to indicate any cause for concern (better say where i got this cuz i hate being called a lair) go to http://en.wikipeda.org/wiki/network_twentyone
there have been lawsuits as well against amway and N21 and another network which r together with them allhttp://www.amquix.info/amway_hall_of_shame.html interesting reading
better go and plan my next step in a legal way
im a woman on a mission now
patsy
p.s
now if everyone complaint to the right authories the goverment will have to do a full investigation on network 21Honestly, there is nothing wrong with the direct selling industry overall – unless:
– you join at the bottom of the chain and there are 1000s and 1000s of people above you, and,
– your uplines lie – about their status and about the business in general
– you do not learn about the actual marketing and business side of it, which is the whole point
– the product/services are INDEED at wholesale price, are necessities, and continuously used,
preferrably not much competition.If you are in Australia, there is a telecommunication direct selling company called 'Our Mobile'
that is about to launch, here is the URL for a free VIP registration to its launch sometime in April,
Melbourne (and later in the year there will be an Australia-wide tour)
http://ourmobile.wealthchemistry.com/ourmobile-VIP-registration.htmlI saw their brochure and test-used their services, their mobile rates are the cheapest and you get
to design your own mobile plan, which is very flexible… below is what I copied and pasted from
an email that the company's CEO assistant sent to me… funny how I prospected the company
CEO a long while ago, and since then we became friends, and he has been updating me with
lots of the company's movement. I think this business is hell lot easier than Amway or Network
21, you just have to ask people what plan they are on and talk about what you have, rather than
pitching people about so-called 'income opportunities'anyway here is a section of his email:
– the company is backed up by research and development in new technologies, including modems
with technology that's never seen in Australian market.– not only can you save heaps on your mobile bills, but you can also save on your other necessities
such as fuel and shopping. Details to be released at the launch.– The founder and CEO of 'Our Mobile' has a vision that their services and infrastructure will integrate
mobile technology and our life, hence there are many major add-ons to the company in the future.– Upon request and approval, you can brand the product(s) under your business name, hence it is
pure direct selling, unless if you just want to use the services yourself.– Joining before May means you will position yourself at the very top of the bonus structure, before
the company expands throughout Australia and Asia pacific.http://ourmobile.wealthchemistry.com/ourmobile-VIP-registration.html
I think he also told me there will be free food and drinks there at the event too.
Come and I will tell you how it is relevant to real estate properties.
all the best,
Michael
ientrep wrote:Honestly, there is nothing wrong with the direct selling industry overall – unless:
– you join at the bottom of the chain and there are 1000s and 1000s of people above you, and,
– your uplines lie – about their status and about the business in general
– you do not learn about the actual marketing and business side of it, which is the whole point
– the product/services are INDEED at wholesale price, are necessities, and continuously used,
preferrably not much competition.If you are in Australia, there is a telecommunication direct selling company called 'Our Mobile'
that is about to launch, here is the URL for a free VIP registration to its launch sometime in April,
Melbourne (and later in the year there will be an Australia-wide tour)
http://ourmobile.wealthchemistry.com/ourmobile-VIP-registration.htmlI saw their brochure and test-used their services, their mobile rates are the cheapest and you get
to design your own mobile plan, which is very flexible… below is what I copied and pasted from
an email that the company's CEO assistant sent to me… funny how I prospected the company
CEO a long while ago, and since then we became friends, and he has been updating me with
lots of the company's movement. I think this business is hell lot easier than Amway or Network
21, you just have to ask people what plan they are on and talk about what you have, rather than
pitching people about so-called 'income opportunities'anyway here is a section of his email:
– the company is backed up by research and development in new technologies, including modems
with technology that's never seen in Australian market.– not only can you save heaps on your mobile bills, but you can also save on your other necessities
such as fuel and shopping. Details to be released at the launch.– The founder and CEO of 'Our Mobile' has a vision that their services and infrastructure will integrate
mobile technology and our life, hence there are many major add-ons to the company in the future.– Upon request and approval, you can brand the product(s) under your business name, hence it is
pure direct selling, unless if you just want to use the services yourself.– Joining before May means you will position yourself at the very top of the bonus structure, before
the company expands throughout Australia and Asia pacific.http://ourmobile.wealthchemistry.com/ourmobile-VIP-registration.html
I think he also told me there will be free food and drinks there at the event too.
Come and I will tell you how it is relevant to real estate properties.
all the best,
Michael
Thank you for taking the time to share what I have little doubt is genuinely a mind-snappingly great business model, involving genuinely competitive products and services and simply another MLM sucker-bet.
I'll get my coat.
1 – It was a genuine invitation, and obligation-free.
2 – It is up to you to market the products and services online, offline, to customers, to businesses, and even brand it under your own name. If you live in Australia now, you will soon see Our Mobile products and services promoted through big names. I cannot reveal these names now due to company policy.
3 – This is particularly a great opportunity for Internet Marketers, which is why I intend to invite some successful internet marketers and hear their strategies (individually if necessary) on how to create an online profit killer. Reason – sales through partnership with strong marketers and powerful promoters are at a different rate compared to sales made to end-users directly.
Anyhow, this comes back to my purpose – which is to answer some original posts by friends who were 'nearly' going into Network 21 or Amway: that Network 21/Amway are OK if you are not prepared to use internet as a leverage and unwilling to learn marketing in 21st Century. In my opinion, and I am sure legendary names such as Mike Dillard, Ann Siege, Mike Filsaime, etc would agree, if you don't use internet as the leverage/media for your marketing campaign, how many personal rejections are you going to handle? I am talking about sales in general no matter what you are selling.
The old methods used last century should stay with last century.
After reading through these points, I hope we can identify between 'sucker-bet's and chain marketing.
Overall, the idea of having a marketing business is to (ideally) generate stable, monthly income so you can cash-roll your real estate investment snowball.
Anyhow, I am designing and building infrastructure online so my own website (http://www.wealthchemistry.com, to be launched next month) can support Our Mobile, as well as other features more relevant to this website, which is about investment. So I have full confidence in Our Mobile and what it can bring to us in terms of not only technology but also lifestyle. Right now the website is empty but experimented for SEO.
If you are an Internet Marketer, I'd like to work with you and explore opportunities together. Email to michael(at)wealthchemistry.com
Theres a must easier way to make money and Amways a great company but the hard thing is trying to decondition people into thinking that they should work hard for passive income(making money while you sleep) and not active income (physically being at work or your boss wont pay you). Internet business or affiliate is a great way of making extra income especally if you need extra cash to service property. theres this great website called http://www.poweronlinepublications.com/affiliates.php its free and easier than MLM if you dont like to sell to your mates just sell via twitter, facebook and myspace.
also 100 bucks to buy exclusive products and improve personal development is the best benifits
Why are people so uptight about amway or N21. Honestly people have lost money in shares and property (bucket loads) and thats ok ??? Lets be honest theres a lot of risk in those type of vehicles but Amway is just a system to be taken advantage of guys.
So many people focus on the 90% that dont succeed why no focus on the ones that do succeed. Why not learn and model from their misakes and learn how they made it a success.
People have lost money in shares right? SO why arernt people jumping up and down about the sharemarket. At least with amway you got no risk and if it took ten years to become a diamond then so be it. My jobs not goin to pay me 160k a year in the next ten years of service. You can learn from your mistakes in Amway but you cant with the share market and property especally when the creditors come knocking.
Read Rich dad poor dad and other books relating to robert kiosaki. Start to change your mindset and stop thinking like a worker and start thinking like a owner. Because the owner pays there staff a fixed rate the owner can make an unlimited amount of money. But remember its not the money that will satisfy people its the lifestyle Sorry guys I just went off on a tanget. r
Go to the private equity market and ask them to invest in your company, which is based on 'network marketing' and the response will be in the ilk of Monty Burns – 'release the hounds!' To them the terms 'network marketing', MLM', 'pyramid schemes' are synonyms. and rightly so.
I think it would depend alot on the “upline” thats signs you up, if they are willing to help you succeed because if you succeed then they succeed, then you could make a real go of it. Its just another avenue for you to make some money. Surley if you tried you could make some money out of it
Paul I would like to ask how much money have they lost money in some of their joint ventures or investments in firms that are involved in property developing and real estate. How many firms in the US have they invested with their money in that have gone bankrupt. I'm pretty sure they will keep that to themselves. In the game of private equity firms they believe in high risk and hight return, It pays off when you succeed. But has the share or stock markets haved the during the recession. hmmm are you willing to invest money during those downtimes? You see Paul i'm just not against MLM, because its how much time and the shift in mindset thinking that will allow you success in MLM type business.
Also how many mums and dads do you know carry a spare $50k to invest, The truth is not alot so. That how a MLM type of system which gives everyday people a chance to build an asset that will supply them cash to invest in other vehcles like shares and property is what I am about. But N21 supplies the education to shift the mindset and allow you to grow and think more like a business owner rather than a culturully conditioned employee(who wants to play it safe, im emphasising on the mindset).
For those who say MLM is a scam, it dosent work, its shit. I would question where they are right now finacially. If you made money through property and stocks congrats im sure it was easy right.
MLM businesses are not easy you actully have to help people succeed before you make money. But if they benifit from an extra 2000 a month. I think that would have helped alot of people to pay their bills and who have lost their jobs during the recession
"MLM is just one more form of selling products or services, and needs a lot of time and dediction and real talent and love for selling and teamwork just like proeperty investing, or running a restaurant."
This is so true. I have been around these companies for many years. You have to have a love of the product and to use the product in your everyday life to become successful.
These sales meeting are great for personal development as well. Usually you will find its just ordinary people who have put their hand up to give a presentation.
It's the same as any business, you have to dedicate a lot of time to set up and run. You can make a success of these systems but only if you work really hard.
There are a number out there besides Amyway. Herbalife, Avon, Nutri-Metics to name a few.
I would say if you can sell ice to the eskimos – go for it with a product you believe in. If you want to improve you self confidence – these businesses help. But dont pay a joining fee – there are lots that will give you product for your money.
Anyway – my advice is try before you buy. You cant sell anything if you dont like it.
No i am not a member of any of them – just been around the block a few times:)
Toni
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