I think that people who attend property seminars and the like are mugs. There is nothing that these seminars can tell you that a couple of books, a bit of research and some basic common sense can't tell you.
I think that if you have paid go on or are considering a property seminar then by default you should not be investing, as you clearly have no idea. If you had any idea you'd know that you should steer well clear.
There is one thing that the seminar set will teach you – get in, get hooked, get your wallet emptied. Sure there may be some gems of wisdom offered at some of the seminars (even a few shiny beads) but you don't get that same warm and fuzzy feeling from a book as you don't have some 'guru' jumping up and down emphasising how they did it and you can too.
There is nothing to stop even a novice from studying, googling or whatever to find out what most of the useful tools/measures are and most importantly how to apply them.
Badgers says….. There is nothing that these seminars can tell you that a couple of books, a bit of research and some basic common sense can't tell you.
I can't agree with this comment. While it may be fine for some who will put in the time and effort to READ the whole book and DO the research, from my experience many people are hard pressed to read a long post on this forum let alone a complete book so if they receive their information from a seminar, at least they get it. There are many dyslexic millionaires.
That's right 'mug punters' that are prepared to have a go and learn, but putting a bet on with more education and reparation behind them has got to improve your chances of success and their is a good chance networking at the event might even gain some backing.
You could also spend lots of time on the internet and not know what BS to filter out!
On could argue as thier is grounds to not send your child to school to learn about a subject, it's horses for coarses.
I have never been to a seminar.
I believe that any amount of education that can assist you in your own personal goal can only do good. I appreciate that there may be some significant costs involved in some seminars, DVDs etc that you cannot simply get from some good books, but generalising that people that attend seminars are simply 'mugs' is a bit rude mate. These forums were designed to assist the like minded in offering opinons and suggestions. Not to critisize how people get there education.
Not all seminars are run by shonky people either. Steve has run many and I dont doubt for a moment that those that attend have gained some significant knowlege from his and many other professional investors that run and attend seminars.
I feel that your opinon is a bit naive. Saying that people 'have no idea' if they consider a seminar is only going to tarnish a respected way to educate people. A significant amount of professional people attend 'seminars' to gain further knowlege and inspiration that you simply cant get from a book. Think about how a university course is run for example. It is generally someone in front of you guiding your education. If books were the answer, all schooling would be done via correspondence.
Its a bit silly to suggest that if people want to invest a significant amount of their hard earned cash and are willing to put up the risk, that their education should be limited books the internet and commonsense. I doubt you have the right to decide for them.
vockie wrote:A significant amount of professional people attend 'seminars' to gain further knowlege and inspiration that you simply cant get from a book. Think about how a university course is run for example. It is generally someone in front of you guiding your education. If books were the answer, all schooling would be done via correspondence.Yeah. You don't want to worry about all that fancy readin' and writin' nonsense. Unsupported anecdotes and motivational music will teach us more than that book learnin'
Seriously, you're not equating professional courses and university education with real estate investing seminars? By volume, the latter are largely comprised of mediocre content, ra-ra performers and are closer to Amway presentations than to lectures.
vockie wrote:I doubt you have the right to decide for them.That raises an interesting point – should idiots be allowed to be idiots or should they be legislated against because they are a danger to themselves (and perhaps others)? From an investment standpoint I think the need to dictate has been proven by the very fact that we are witnessing tightening of lending practices because idiots should not be left to their own devices (lenders and borrowers). But should we help them?
More broadly, I think many of us suffer fools, which adds a huge impost to our tax burden. Take for example something as simple as the green and red walk / don’t walk for pedestrian crossings. I don't need an effing green man to tell me when it's safe to cross. Why? Because I'm not an idiot! I do not need a warning sign to tell me not to lean out of the train window, I do not need a “No Diving” sign telling me not to do a swan-dive in the local duck pond! I bet there are thousands of examples of this nonsense (Note to self as future PM – tax the idiots).
I think this kind of nannying legislation has interfered with some of the basic principles of evolution and the gene pool is not being rid of idiots (I'm thinking of the Darwin Awards: http://www.darwinawards.com). So, perhaps you are right, we should not be allowed to decide for them. Let them spend $4,500 on a over-priced seminar, because these are the mugs that will end up being fleeced and/or coming unstuck with crappy investment strategies and the investment gene pool will be rid of them. Hurrah!
You are right. Idiots are and will always be idiots. Thays why we expiate them when they don't see that 'red-man'. Sometimes they need a smack around the face with a fine to see that what they are doing isn't right as some people tend to miss-time the walk and get cleaned up by a truck. It's never a prettty sight!
I do agree with you to an extent that some poeople should wake up to themselves when they invest. Some seem to have a 'gamblers' mentality and believe what they see in a 'dodgy' seminar and then commit themselves to that strategy without any other thought. Sad really. If thats all they want to do, then they can find out the hard way. You would think it would be commonsense to to you home work and educate yourself a bit and see what is on offer first.
The only part that i disagree with you is the fact that you seem to pigeon hole all people that attend property seminars as uneducated 'mugs' that shouldn't be investing in the firstplace. (Not to mention what you are saying about people that run seminars.) A seminar is simply an avenue for people to learn. People learn in different ways and some find seminars a better option than books. There are a great number of ethical and experienced investors out there that are simply helping others out with their knowlege through semirars. Naturally it can come at a cost though, but that is up to the buyer. If you have done your homework and can trust the presenter isnt being investigated by ASIC then you should be comfortable with them. And as 'Jaffasoft' commented, some people might find the social networking part of it helpful.
As the saying goes. – Only fools rush in.
I to have never attended a seminar. I read many books, subscribe to 3 magazines and use the internet to do my research.
Badgers_R_Us wrote:I think that people who attend property seminars and the like are mugs. There is nothing that these seminars can tell you that a couple of books, a bit of research and some basic common sense can't tell you.I think that if you have paid go on or are considering a property seminar then by default you should not be investing, as you clearly have no idea. If you had any idea you'd know that you should steer well clear.
I'm not into seminars personally, but your above statement is just plain dumb. I personally know a number of very successful property investors who got their initial inspiration from going to seminars. How are these people mugs?
In fact I think Steve McKnight got his initial inspiration to begin property investing from a Robert Kiyosaki seminar…
HI there
the benefit of attending a seminar is that you are with like minded people and can learn how they have applied their knowledge.My husband recently attended a seminar which was for free – it reaffirmed many of the things we are already doing and reminded us of some of the things we need to keep up to date with – such as updating wills and powers of attorney when our situation changes. For example, one of our children has just turned 18 which will impact upon distributions from trusts, who we appoint as executors etc. Also that she too needs to have a will.
We too have read books, looked at dvds and networked with other investors.
Investing in your own education – whatever way it is delivered – is a truly beneficial investment. We have applied the information we have learned, have invested in property and shares – but continue to learn – and hopefully in turn will educate our children so they will be on the right path for their investments – so in turn they can help their communities.
thanksAPerry wrote:I personally know a number of very successful property investors who got their initial inspiration from going to seminars. How are these people mugs?It does not necessarily follow that just because they are successful that they were not mugs for going in the first place. Although I doubt they'd admit it because no one likes to fess-up to being had. Anyway, there will always be exceptions to such generalisations.
Hi All
Gosh I must remember, in my next life, to never attend a seminar because, before I attended, I had my PPOR and now I control over $xx mil in property. All done with various seminars and a couple of books from Robert Kiyosaki and John Burley. Sorry, no university and utilised one of the seminar presenters as an on-going mentor (and paid heaps for the privilege).
Thanks for showing me the terrible mistakes I've made
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
"Seriously, you're not equating professional courses and university education with real estate investing seminars? By volume, the latter are largely comprised of mediocre content, ra-ra performers and are closer to Amway presentations than to lectures."
Let's see … I spent five years at uni getting a law degree and my lectures were, by large, filled with mediocre content and ra-ra performers. I learned how to tell the lecturers what they wanted to hear and how to cram just enough information into my head to vomit it all out in an exam and promptly forget it.
I now make far more money in real estate than I ever did as a lawyer. I believe that education is a large part of any profession. I spent 5 years at uni, costing me well over $5000 per year. I see no problem at all in spending money on seminars to boost my investing strategies. If I spend a couple of grand at a seminar and decide that a particular strategy is useless to me, then it is money well spent.
Hey Badgers, tell us about how successful your investing has been from reading books and not going to seminars. I can tell you of at least 10 people I know who have become successful property investors from the application of strategies taught at seminars.
K
I think the question is better posed what/who is really behind the seminar. What’s the product.
Getting caught up in schemes where you're paying for the privilege of being told to buy a property you could have easily
found yourself with a cheap airfare and a basic strategy is simply crazy.
So the seller pays the seminar provider a marketing fee to get the property sold and then the buyer pays the seminar
company a fee for finding the property.
Now let’s stop and think for a second we know we can make money from property so why are these so called gurus so
interested in telling others how to do it too. Beats work for a living.
We all know that the stories that come out of these schemes eventually end up on the TV at 6:30 at night and we sit
back and think how silly are you people. I guess thats the sentiment to focus on.
PaulDobson wrote:Hi All Gosh I must remember, in my next life, to never attend a seminar because, before I attended, I had my PPOR and now I control over $xx mil in property. All done with various seminars and a couple of books from Robert Kiyosaki and John Burley. Sorry, no university and utilised one of the seminar presenters as an on-going mentor (and paid heaps for the privilege). Thanks for showing me the terrible mistakes I've made Cheers, PaulThree are two points here, the first, as made by Opportunity, is the hard-to-dispute fact that there are dodgy seminars and there are mugs who get sucked in. The second point is that sure, there are seminars that can offer good advice and motivation from bona fide professionals, but that does not mean one is not a mug for paying five grand for something that could have been gleaned from a book. It's like paying Jamie Oliver a days wage to teach you how to cook an omelette!
Hi Badger
Gosh, I'm going to have to slap myself on the wrist again
Why, well I paid $10,000 for a full year of mentoring and, at the first get together, learned a technique that no one in the group had ever heard of before. So I went straight out and used the technique and earned myself $36,000 on that transaction. And I still haven't seen it written about in any book (and I've read most of the list at the back of API).Keep them coming though, I love your masterful generalisations, e.g. "I think that people who attend property seminars and the like are mugs. There is nothing that these seminars can tell you that a couple of books, a bit of research and some basic common sense can't tell you."
Cheers, Paul
Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
Email Me | Phone MeAn alternative way to finance your home.
PaulDobson wrote:Hi Badger
Gosh, I'm going to have to slap myself on the wrist again
Why, well I paid $10,000 for a full year of mentoring and, at the first get together, learned a technique that no one in the group had ever heard of before. So I went straight out and used the technique and earned myself $36,000 on that transaction. And I still haven't seen it written about in any book (and I've read most of the list at the back of API).Let's just hope the $26k you made covered the cost of all the other courses and seminars you did ; -)
Hi
Like anything, TV, Newspapers, Get Rich Quick books (makes the author rich anyway), seminars, Uni, even paid for advice – if you haven't got the ability to think and decipher the information and turn it into useful knowledge you are lost from the start.
Everyone in this world has vested interests.
The one common rule is "people don't know what they don't know", therefore one has to find ways of reducing the level of "don't knows".
The way this is done can be many and varied – but if your a sucker you'll always be a sucker.
Think about this though – does your source of information have something to lose if they are wrong? Internet opinions are that – opinions.
When I provide advice to clients whether via educational seminars or in written format, the future success of my business is at stake – not to forget the Professional Indemnity insurance as well.
The issue at stake is whether you are looking to learn more or just find someone that supports your initial view on what may be a way to accumulate wealth or wanting someone to challenge your view and ensure that you have considered as many options and issues as possible.
Even the many non uni entreprenuers learn from their own and others experiences.
Badgers_R_Us wrote:I think that people who attend property seminars and the like are mugs. There is nothing that these seminars can tell you that a couple of books, a bit of research and some basic common sense can't tell you.I think that if you have paid go on or are considering a property seminar then by default you should not be investing, as you clearly have no idea. If you had any idea you'd know that you should steer well clear.
What a ridiculous comment to start a topic about. This is why I hate forums – the SNR is so low.
I just got back from a seminar and found it very rewarding. Here's a few points of value:
- A wake up call / health check – is there something I can improve or is my investment getting clogged arteries?
- A lot of stuff I didn't know I didn't know, and was too complacent to go looking.
- Other people's questions, comments and experience. Much more valuable than forums like this where people make personal attacks on each other.
Books and online newspaper sites are great, but you can't get questions clarified in an instant, and you've got to know what to filter. Seminars give you a quick overview of topics so you know what to delve into further and usually give you a list of resources of where to go looking. It's like having an expert gloss over the chapters and subheadings of a book with you so you know which pages to turn to.
Perhaps you meant to say that anyone who goes to a seminar and invests in their offerings without due diligence should not be surprised if it turns out to be a lemon. That I can agree with.
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