Hey guys,
If you have an option on a property, ideally with DA, or you have a deal in mind and already have feaso I would love to have a chat with you. PM me or email [email protected].
ForeverStudent wrote:Hey guys,If you have an option on a property, ideally with DA, or you have a deal in mind and already have feaso I would love to have a chat with you. PM me or email [email protected].
My apologies. The option that I'm looking for would preferably be residential, in suburban Melbourne and one suitable for affordable housing and can fit 20-50 blocks. Retail per block would be $100k – $150k or house & land package of $250k – $400k.
It'll be nice if there's an area or site where people can trade deals… kinda like the stock market.
Matt007 wrote:………. If I'm going into a legally binding agreement and paying someone $30K + to get me results I expect and demand proof prior to handing over a single cent.
Get everything in a legally binding written form that holds them to their claims. See if they'll do it. If not, ask yourself why.
Good luck.Well said Matt007, well said…
Their course material and handbooks are very poor quality.
All the Massland and Property Options print materials are riddled with spelling errors and absurd grammar.
Everything about the company screams tacky inspirational seminar.
They might not be a scam, but are they worth the $75,000 fee for their Conclave course?
What many of these spruikers fail to recognises is that people are there to be able to make money like $75K and $30K etc, if they had that kind of money to throw at a 'mentoring' program (which personally I think is a misconception and misuse of the term) why would they be there? It's too expensive in my personal opinion, especially when many of these seminar spruikers and 'educators' cant' back up, (or won't) any of the claims they make? Why would any intelligent person throw that kind of money at someone who simply 'says' they are something with no evidence what so ever that they can do, or have done, what they say they can? Mind you it doesn't stop the high pressure NLP laden selling that goes on and many people get parted from their money without really knowing what they're getting into. I've yet to see one of these spruikers offer a cooling off period. I also see many people trying to get their money back….one wonders why.
In my mind that kind of relationship is a business one, with a fee for service and the results expected contingent upon many things, not least of which is the individuals input, but including the 'mentors' track record of having done the very thing they're trying to teach, successfully, and over a protracted period, in a public arena. If they really have done half a billion dollars worth of projects, etc etc, then there must be a paper trail, evidence, advertising, so on and so forth. For example, look at Mirvac, AV Jennings etc etc .. all successful development companies (relatively speaking) with public information readily accessible. Something I note is lacking with the majority of 'educators' out there saying they're on the same level playing field. I would be asking why that is before paying these people a single cent for any mentoring. If they can back it up in some form of legally binding, documentary evidence, great, hand over your money if you feel its going to get you value for money. Hell, if you want to give someone $30grand to recycle information available publicly to you, get in touch I'll gladly take your money!
Mind you, if they just got up and said "I'm just here presenting the information, I'm an educator not a developr or whatever"… at least there'd be some level of transparency and honesty involved…… ooops! did I say honesty? Silly me..
Good luck to you if you want to pay these guys $75 grand… personally I'd rather spend it on a good lawyer and a DA.
Peace.
Yes Matt you are correct …
These seminars are directed at the unsophisticated investor who is "lured" in thinking they are going to get rich …
Fighting against these people will only create new ones emerging and you will never win … look at Jenman.
They generally last for 3 years until their popularity diminishes.
Danny and Paul Hanna … Henry Kaye … etc and the young inexperienced investor is looking for the magic dust or the great secret uncovered from a magic scroll found under the great Pyramid hahahaha
Until the ASIC … ACCC … TDFT write law that every seminar presenter must provide proof and or be licensed to give "financial advise" whether standing on stage or via a web site you will never win … or until Neil Jenman gets to a decent lobiest to put it through parliament this will continue …
One of my heroes is Peter Spann because he not only came from poverty he went to extraordinary lengths to become compliant in every respect and he proves he worth and backs up his wealth
The only secret to wealth is get off your arse and give it a go … a failure does not mean you are a failure it means you are learning to become rich and financially free … mistakes are good we all make them just DO something … start small while you learn but just do something.
Well spoken W4L. I too admire Peter Spann.. was one of the first 'wealth educators' I came across in fact.. Hmm.. in hidnsight perhaps I should have just stuck there! Still, despite the various negative experiences, I know more than when I started, which in my mind is a plus.
Merry Christmas to you.
Your comments are much appreciated here Matt007 and W4L. It seems like it will be a very interesting and busy 2010 to some and I wish everybody as prosperous new year.
Ive done Marks workshop in Sydney and at the end of the day you pay him $5k to learn how to research potential available land suitable for development, and if you find anything Mark will pay you a commission on the project if his company takes out an option on the property… its a clever way for them to get alot of people researching for potential development blocks. You would need to be doing this full time as its very time consuming and developers are out there picking everything clean as it is… If you have nothing else to do with your day then this could be for you… not me however, I guess it was an eye opener. Cheers Steve
Hi Steve …
There are LOTS of people who do these courses but has there been one person who reads this blog that has done the course and has actually done one deal or put a deal through Massland with success.
If you read the web site he eludes that he has done over 500 million in projects that are listed on his site … are these his or is this misleading.
I think it should be law set by TDFT or ACCC that any presenter "Proves" their wealth to be a wealth coach … Steve and Dave bought 130 properties in 3.5 years and can prove it so why don't the others … a millionaire today is worth about 10 million dollars so if these people profess to be self made millionaires then show us the money … ??
Steve do you think your 5k was well invested or was it more like a Tony Robbins seminar with property content mixed in ??
Hi Guys,
I would be interested to know if anyone has actually done a deal through Massland, Im gathering that Massland is the company and Mark Rolton is the presenter, reading these posts today it appears that there hasnt been any deals done.
If they have deals why dont these guys be transparent and put alot of people's minds at ease and release deals and details, obviously privacy is an issue but Im sure there would be a way around it. There appears that some Educators are happy to release this information so they must have got around the privacy issue if there is one?
Maybe that is the key they are true genuine Educators not just Sales People.
Look forward to people's comments
I'd be interested to know that too. In four years I've not come across anyone that's done a deal or been paid out by them. I have come across a number of very angry people though who've dealt with them. that's putting it politely. I've also contacted a number of people who Mark and Massland say they've done deals with, been great 'friends' with, had finance through.. again… interesting conversations indeed.
If you think privacy is an issue about deals, make this comparison: Massland say they're worth $500 Mill and have deals everywhere, but tell no one anything about them at any time. Then you have companies like Mirvac, AV Jennings, Devine etc, that are worth about $100 Mill or more in some cases and less in others, who can't stop sending you emails about their deals and who to talk to and how wonderful people say they are. Ask yourself in your own opinions why that may be, and what reasons there may be behind that approach. Could I be wrong? Of course. Do I personally believe I am wrong? Work it out for yourself.
Hmmm. Transparency works for those who have nothing to hide. For those that do, it's like cancer itself.
Thanks Matt007 have you had an experience with Massland or are you basing your comments on what you have heard? I am new to this and want to gather as much information as possible.
I went to a workshop in Sydney on the weekend which is available free on the internet and includes a monthly workshop and 24 online modules, it was very good. From what I can see though there are alot out there that are charging $5000 and $6000 for courses it is very confusing.
Any help is welcome.
I dealt with them directly. Biggest error I made was believing what they told me. I'll never deal with them, or anyone connected with them in any way, again. Keep doing your research, and if you do nothing else, if you're going to deal directly with them don't hand them a single cent before asking for, and receiving, documentary auditable evidence of their claims, deals, and happy customers. I can't really say much more than that, and if you think about that, its what any intelligent person would do before handing over money or entering into legallly binding agreements such as JVs etc where there are profit share arrangements in place, so I'm not telling you to do anything out of the ordinary. If they won't, or can't, ask yourself why that is.
Best of luck.Quinn Petrie wrote:Thanks for the reply, I tried to contact Mark but have only been able to speak to his sales team at Massland. I have already requested to speak to any of their students who are using options based in Victoria. Due to privacy reasons they could not give me any details! I have also looked into his “splitter course” which seems like a pretty straight forward concept, but he still uses an option to control the “splitter’. Matt , you have hit the nail on the head, ‘splitters’ or subdivisions are a relatively simple concept and I don’t believe that spending $6k on a course is going to increase my knowledge any more then searching the web and talking to local council. My only drama at this stage is finding a solicitor or lawyer who can prepare option contracts so I can start doing these ‘deals’ ????? Surely there is someone out there who knows something, or who could point me in the direction of a good solicitor, without having to waste 6k on a seminar just to find out where I can get one of these contracts??? If anyone has bought Marks course or has a copy of his Option contract or Zaffar Iqubal Khan’s 1 page call option deed I would love to buy a copy? Any help would be much appreciated! CheersI found that using options for the splitters is way too hard. As you usually target the site around 1000M2 for the splitters purpos, they are mostly normal residential site. Therefore you'll be competing against those buyers who are happy to settle within 30-120days. Mark suggest that you should have 12 months or longer option to make it really work. I understand the concept but it's not realistic. He also suggest us to say "We are more than happy to pay over and above the market price for the time" but you'll quickly realise, when you work your feasibility out, it is very difficult to make it work if you pay "over and above market price" for the splitters.
Options works the best for the larger development site where it is normal to have 24 months and longer settlement. Funnily enough the councils also started to use options to secure their site.
wealth4life.com wrote:I can help you with the options contract but they are not free.There are several types of options contracts – the names of these are irrelevant as they are derivatives of an agreement in one form or another.
Call contracts – put and call contracts – options contracts – yes the best Lawyer in my opinion is a guy on the Gold Coast at k2law called Peter Kumnick – use the code name Lemon cello and you will get a discount 07 5538 8300
I agree! Peter knows option really well.
He used the options himself for some of his own development projects in Coomera and Upper Coomera area.Matt007 wrote:I dealt with them directly. Biggest error I made was believing what they told me. I'll never deal with them, or anyone connected with them in any way, again. Keep doing your research, and if you do nothing else, if you're going to deal directly with them don't hand them a single cent before asking for, and receiving, documentary auditable evidence of their claims, deals, and happy customers. I can't really say much more than that, and if you think about that, its what any intelligent person would do before handing over money or entering into legallly binding agreements such as JVs etc where there are profit share arrangements in place, so I'm not telling you to do anything out of the ordinary. If they won't, or can't, ask yourself why that is.
Best of luck.I went through a huge disappointment with Massland myself.
I have put the deal together as their JV partner. They suggested to on sell it within the due diligence period.
When we couldn't move it they decided to hand the option document back to the owners… which was fine. These things happen.Few weeks after the option document was returned I received a phone call from the owner of this particular site asking me if I was aware of the fact that Massland has contacted him again saying that they now want to put it under the new option and Mark himself actually came to see him to discuss about it. Well, I knew nothing about it then, but I was hoping that they would contact me and let me know about it sooner or later, as I still had a trust in them.
Guess what? I heard nothing from them. I thought that it was quite un-ethical and the owner of the property thought the same and wanted to deal with me rather than Massland. I was very disappointed though as I thought that Mark was a man of integrity as he presented himself that way on stage.Recently, friend of mine went through the similar situation with them. Well, it actually was worse as the owner decided to sign on the option document. He only found out about it through the agent he had been closely working with for this particular project. This agent happened to have the connection with the developer who was approached by Massland about this site.
When my friend confronted Mark about this issue he actually became very defensive and agressive denying everything and hang up on him.Now, having said that I did learn great deal out of their course and do appreciate the knowlege I have now. Just don't do JV with them. Sadly they are not ethical bunch.
Dear Pieta,
If you are after a very good solicitor to do options contracts, JV agreements, simultaneous agreements, splitter contracts, delayed contracts, etc then Peter Kumnick of k2Law is the man …
I appreciate that many people who are on this forum are after FREE stuff however remember that these agreements are copyright at law to that solicitor in question so act with integrity and be prepared to pay … no professional person will give these away for free as it is their intellectual property … Peters number is 07 5538 8300 … remember you are talking to a solicitor not a plumber, no disrespect intended.
I have been reading with interest about Massland … if a person or company representing to the public they are worth 500 million dollars either on stage or on a web site then you have a right at law to contact the ACCC and they will take the issue up with that person or company under section 52 "misleading and deceptive information" you can also contact the ASIC … you must be very careful what you put on your web site and what you say on stage …
I really don't know why people pay $6,000.00 to attend a seminar to learn about optioning real estate … an OPTION is a derivative of an "agreement" same as JV partnerships – tennants in common – simullaneous – etc … an OPTION is an agreement granting time … you may as well call it a "Time" contract it is the same thing.
One hour with Peter Kumnick solicitor at $500.00 is better spent IMHO … it does not matter what you call the agreement at the end of the day it is a discussion in writing between two parties … An understanding.
Mark says he used to clean windows for a living and Carly left home and traveled the world before 20 … to me it is a story of the porper done good … I am sure both of these current flavours of the month are full of integrity and are willing to disclose their real deals in the interest of the public.What I enjoy from this forum is that there are several people here that are doing better than the spruikers and possibly have more knowledge … get to know the people on this forum who are real and have a clean history and learn from them IMHO …
If you understand clearly what a contract is then all other names given to a contract are a "derivative" … folks it is just that simple … there is no SECRET and it doesn't matter what you call the contract … it is an agreement to buy real estate in "one form or another" the only difference is "who wrote it" ie; what solicuitor.
Good luck to you all … one month gone and 11 to go before Christmas
Hmmm great post,
No. 1 it does not matter who the presenter is but in my opinion is does matter about representation to the public and this sounds like some of these people have done that, which is sad and if correct a lack of intelligence and poor character.
Years ago I went to a 2 hour free seminar in St Leonard’s in Sydney and the person, who has been mentioned on this site in other posts said, my 7 year old son just negotiated a 2 million dollar property deal using the techniques I am about to tell you … there were about 100 people in the room and ONE left, and I still wonder today why the others stayed.
Property is about 2 parts only … the land and what is on it … the rest is about people and negotiation skills.
Conceptual planning, splitters, wraps, on-sells, simultaneous settlements, time sensitive, torrens, JV Partnerships, co-habitation, Options are all terms and W4L is correct all derivatives in one form or another of an agreement between the buyer and the seller.
Mark Roltan will have 100 different agreements as I am sure Carly Crutchfield will have 100 developers agreements and I have 100 agreements from what I have done from Golf Course development sites to land subdivisions. Every agreement is different because they involve different people buyers/sellers conditions
I have an A – Z options module and I will discuss with my solicitor to release it here for free, keep posted.
For the novice don’t get caught up in the big up sell, learn people skills and then learn how to negotiate first – all the rich people in the world including Australia are good sales people … Mark and Carly are good sales people before they got on stage, this is the hardest skill to learn.
Most people think there is a secret to making money in real estate or property developing but the only secret in this business is communication skills … one old friend of mine has personally developed over 15,000 lots of land in the last 25 years … people love him and he is one of the best sales people I have ever met in my life because he is a MASTER with handling people.
I believe the future is in on line education – and remember what some people did 3 years ago to make money in real estate will NOT work in todays market.
Philip Sigglekow author
Greenerpastures wrote:Thanks Matt007 have you had an experience with Massland or are you basing your comments on what you have heard? I am new to this and want to gather as much information as possible.I went to a workshop in Sydney on the weekend which is available free on the internet and includes a monthly workshop and 24 online modules, it was very good. From what I can see though there are alot out there that are charging $5000 and $6000 for courses it is very confusing.
Any help is welcome.
Hi,
I'm a highly cautious creature and extremely wary of people trying to sell me things so they can make a quick buck. I attended my first and last 21st Century seminar on the weekend (for free) and saw Mark's presentation. I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with all those on here who've said he's a slick operator and WHAT a salesman! (which I'm allergic to, lol).I want to invest in property and am trying to learn as much as I can and stumbled across this forum – absolute gold! Greenerpastures – I'm curious about the workshop you mention, would you be able to tell me what it was about?
Matt007 – I've read every single thing in this thread, so glad I've found it and consider myself as a beginner extremely lucky to be able to read yours and other comments to enable me to make an educated decision and not be lured in by the Mark Rolton's of this world!
All the best and look forward to reading and learning more here
Lilith
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