My brother & I own a property together – it was handed down to us by our father. My brother wanted to live in the house, so we came to the agreement that he would live there, as long as he paid the rates, rent free. I recently found out that the rates are currently 2 years overdue, and my brother moved out about 5 months ago. He now resides in a different state from the house as well. I decided that I would renovate the place and put tennants in place to pay the rates initially, then have a fully cash positive IP – I was heading up to the property in two weeks time to do this ( the peoperty is 1700km from where I live). Then I heard from one of the neighbours during a yearly xmas/new year chat, that there were people living in the place. This only gets better ! I called the police and asked them if they could go over and see if anybody was there, and if there was to give me a name and number so that I may contact them to find out what was going on. The police did go over and talked to a man at the house who said that he was an 'aquaintance' of my brother and that he and the others in the house where 'living with my brother' who 'came and went a lot'. I told them my brother did not live there and that no-one had been given permission to live there. They would not give me any names or numbers stating the privacy laws, but in the next breath said that they could give them my number. I asked them not to do this, as I have a silent numer and it is silent for a reason. I questioned them as to why they could not give me the names and number of people living in a house I own ?? Privacy laws was the answer, and the only way for me to find out who they are is to go there and knck on the door and ask them. Hmmmm. Just to make things more complicated, my brother works in remote areas and is extremely hard to get hold of. I am currently desperately trying to contact him to get him to call the police and tell them that this person (and company) in the house is no 'aquaintenances' of his, and that he does not reside there. I am hoping that the police can act on this information and escort these people off the premises. Am I kidding myself ??? Am I up for a battle ?? Has anyone out there got any experience with this kind of thing that could offer me some advice ?? Please help…….and thanks in advance
Hi Narellen
Unfortunately yes, you are kidding yourself. The property is only half yours. The other half belongs to your brother. Unless and until you ascertain that the people living there are not there with the permission of your brother there is nothing you can do. If it turns out they are there with the permission of your brother then he, as a half owner, is entitled to do with it pretty much as he wants (with the exception of selling it). You gave him permission to live there rent free. You did not say anything to him about subletting it. Although admittedly if the people do know him, it is not a very brotherly thing for him to do without speaking to you first.
The first thing I would do is find out whether these people are related to your brother. If that is the case, you should express your concerns to him. If they are just squatters you will then need a stat dec from both you and your brother to the effect that neither of you know these people and neither of you gave anyone else permission to live in your house. You can then go to the police and have them evicted (and possibly charged) with trespass.
Good luck
I will be keen to hear how it goes.
Cheers
K
Hello K
Thanks so much for the reply.
Just as info, when we agreed for my brother to live in the house, it was with no subletting. – just my brother, and I did make that very loud and clear (hmmmm, obviously it wasn't loud and clear enough). I do have a sneaking suspicion that my brother does know these people, but like you say, I need to speak with him first to clarify the situation, which I am currently trying to do. And no, it isn't a very brotherly thing to do at all – very disappointing, I can tell you. But onwards and upwards !!!
If the house was transferred info my name alone, ie I buy out my brother's half, would I be able to do that stat dec you spoke about and get them evicted that way ? I was going to do this anyway before I started renovating.
Looking forward to you response.
N
Okay, i don't know the legalities of squatters… but is there a local real estate property manager that could offer any advice. Does anyone here know if you would be able to hand over management to an agent and increase the rent from $0 to say $100pw? Can you even do that? just a thought.
If the property is half yours, then aren't you entitled to ask for rent? maybe that would make the freeloaders leave. I have an offer on a place next door to one i already own, it is a relatively low offer (i only want the land)- hence why they are waiting to see if they get a better offer.. but the reason the lady is selling is she is in a nursing home and 3 of her nephews (dole bludgers, pot smokers) moved in and have trashed the place… the agent reckons they get pretty annoyed when he wants to show people through the place and that maybe they will move on…. but they haven't.
Oooh gosh my property next to this one is lying vacant as it isn't livable… i sure hope they don't decide they prefer mine!
good luck with evicting the 'less than desirable freeloaders' let us know how you go, it's an interesting situation.
Hi N! I'm sorry, I'm fortunate enough never to have been in this – or a similar – situation, so I can't offer much helpful advice. But I did want to offer "tea and sympathy", for what it's worth.
If your brother moved out 5 months ago and the rates are 2 years overdue, I'm assuming that you and your brother don't have a fabulous relationship, in which case I'm wondering why your father would leave you joint ownership of a property together? (Perhaps he died intestate, and this is just what happened?)
Anyway, I'd definitely be buying out your brother (or selling out), and if nothing else, it will make the situation clearer.
I suspect this is going to be resolved over months rather than weeks or days, but I really hope for your sake that I'm wrong. I think my biggest concern at this point would be how your "tenants" are looking after the property. It may pay to be as nice as possible, given that they have the potential to trash your property and you'd probably have no hope of recovering your losses, unfortunately.
Good luck, and keep us posted,
Tracey in Brisbane
Beaniemonster, you have just made my day !!! Thank you.
Just prior to Christmas I called a local Real Estate agent and spoke with its owner about rents, rental demands etc, and it was based on this conversation and my own independent research, that I decided that I would renovate the place and put it in the hands of that agent. There are literally no properties available, long waiting list s, and the rents are outrageous. That was the plan anyway – until I discovered there were people in it………….and the rest is history.
Your email just wacked me around the head and told me to get on the phone and find out. So I did. And gues what – it is possible for the RE Agent to approach the people in the house and advise them the property is now under management by them. Yippeeeeeee……….. The people in the house will need to pay bond and 2 weeks rent upfront and if no money shows the RE Agent will issue a Remedy to Breach, which gives them 9 days to rectify. Should they not pay up I think the next step is to take them to small claims court (I was so excited to hear that something could be done, everything went a bit blurry after that) and the next step is eviction.
Another step in the right direction, is that I have finally been able to chase my brother down and find out what he has been up to. Isn't life just grand ! There was never any man involved in the equation, so whoever it was that the police spoke with is a mystery. My brother made a verbal agreement with a woman and her 2 kids to rent the house. I was not informed, as he was trying to get the money to cover the rates and at the same time not let me know that the rates had not been paid. I did ask ocassionally if he was keeping up with them, and he always said yes. I put my trust in him, and never checked for myself (learnt a lesson there – haven't I ?). The neighbour that told me people were in the house reported 2 women, 2 kids and a weekend man. After the police visited at my request, my brother got a phone call from the woman accusing him of setting the police on her. He told her it was probably my doing, and that some of that 'brown smelly stuff 'was really going to hit the fan very shortly if it was me. The woman with the kids then told my bro that she would move out by the end of the week. Apparently the other woman moved out the next day. Phew, this is riviting stuff.
Sooooo, being the trusting sole that I am (*chuckle*), I have engaged the services of the abovementioned RE Agent to go to work. My bro will probably get another phone call from the woman shortly after she is issued with an Entry Notice……..
And yes, being half owner I am entitled to half the rent .The RE Agent is this minute going for a drive past the place to see what condition it is being kept in – I shudder to think. Then the Entry Notice will be seved, and we will see what the inside iof the house is like and come up with a fair & reasonable rent figure. The RE Agent was saying that they can't increase the rent for 2 months from what they are supposed to be paying now. Hmmmmm. Since there are no written agreements and no rent has been paid anyway, it is just so cool that the fair & reasonable rent figure matches the figure my bro qouted. Hmmm, that should do it !
How relieved am I ?
That's enough about me, now how about you ? Sounds like the nephews 3 are getting you a deal on a bit of land. They are making the property look so unattractive and keeping all the competition at bay ! What more could you ask for ?? I know – your offer to be accepted………..
After your offer has been accepted, maybe you can go down the track you suggested for me. Hang on, better wait and make sure that the track I'm on doesn't have any nasty snags still waiting to be crushed, until you do that.
Interesting indeed…………………
Narellen
Hello Tracey from Brisbane,
Don't be sorry – be thankful. Your "tea and sympathy" were very worthwile. Wot a sweetie – thanks for that !
No, my brother and I are fine. The reason for the rates is explained in my response to Beaniemonster – all very innocent I think.
But you are right, I will buy him out, pull up the drivers seat, and never have to contemplate anything like this happening again. ( Life will be so boring). My brother is not a property investor, so he is probably unaware of a lot of the concepts involved, whereas I on the other hand am the opposite. To tell the truth, I have really hated seeing that property sitting there with him in it earning nothing, and knowing it's potential. So maybe all this has happened for a reason.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I will definitely keep you posted.
Narelle from Brisbane as well………………
Hi Narelle,
fantastic result, made my day too! thanks for letting us know.
All too often landlords get the raw end of the stick or a long drawn out process… i sure hope (even though the freeloaders may be peaved) that you are granted possesion soon.
I myself have just had to issue a notice to vacate due to a tenant being 17 days in arrears. my previous attempts at trying to negotiate (to be nice, even though they aren't sticking to the agreement they signed) have fell on deaf ears, and i have decided to kick myself up the pants and say 'this is an investment not a homeless shelter' I too am in a position to increase rent and rent it straight away, so emotions aside and back to business i say!!!!
the reason i snapped today – apparently my property manager got a call from a new car financing company to give a reference to the tenant (who can't even afford their rent) HOW WORRYINGLandlords seem to come last – even cigarettes are move important to some tenants!! lol
Beaniemonster from Melbourne
p.s 2008 is the 'year of the landlords' rents are going up and vacancies are low – we shouldn't have to put up with rent arrears and squatters! LOL
Interesting read this post is. My company specialises in this sort of situation. Couple of things I should point out one just cause there is a agent know involved does not mean that you can claim a bond or even charge rent for that matter. The party who placed the tenants in the property HAS the right do just this and agent can not know turn up on the door step and inform the tenant that they are now required to sign a lease, pay rent and hand over 4 weeks bond.
Sorry for not answering sooner. If you want feel free to give me a call and we can discuss in greater detail.
Hello Benjamin,
Thanks for that info – but it worked anyway. The squaters are out, and I am in the house busily renovating it….
As soon as I am back home I will update all those that helped me……
Thanks heaps.
Narelle
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