Hi All,
It's been a while I was on this forum, since then I've finished a 2 lot subdivision in Knox and learnt the lessons….before I decide on my next project, could someone share their thoughts about what they think are the best areas for development or could point me in the direction of an old thread related to the topic? I'm happy to share my experiences too.
vicgirl
Sorry to hijack your thread but I'd love to hear about your history with Knox. We have houses on development blocks in Boronia and Ferntree Gully but we've never attempted development before. What "lessons" did you learn?
Knox was quite reasonable, City of Maroondah were complete bureaucratic B………'s.
they charged me a 35,000 bond, no interest provided for holding it.
Knox charged around $10,000.
I wrote Maroondah a very lengthy letter about many issues, well, their response was "who cares?".
they fined me $2000 for doing landscaping without authority, basically I felt hassled and almost victimized from beginning to end.
I will never deal with that council again.Regina, thanks for your valuable comments. (my daughter's name is Regina too). I will cross Maroondah off my list.
Dealing with Knox City was not a bad experience, I was lucky to get my permit though as one of the last ones in that area of Boronia (close to the hills). I might do another one closer to Wantirna, although somebody told me that if I try to do something bigger than dual occupancy, the council contribution gets quite expensive in Knox but not in Monash.Although the bond was 35,000 in Knox too
I have dealt with Maroondah and found them pathetic (probably an understatment). I had to put a $34k deposit bond down down (regina, FYI you can place this down as a bank guarantee so you still earn interest on the money in the bank however it does still hold up $34k of your funds), they tried to fine me for 'destroying' a tree that was bluntly approved to remain as part of the building permit and they really had a who cares type of attitude. i haven't got my deposit bond back either but have paid for my drive and stormwater in full.
i am reluctant to try and deal with maroondah again as I found there was no reasonaning for lots of their decisions and they went out of their way to try and make things difficult for people. they have forgotten that they are there to serve the community. all we're trying to do is make the comunity a better place to live and they are trying to slow the process dramatically.
i constantly felt that they wanted to put up another hurdle to stall the project. it was a joke.
i have recently purchased in knox but have not yet dealt with the council. their contibutions do seem very hefty. it's a 3 townhouse development in wantirna south and it's a great spot but from memory on the planning permit contribution is up to 8.5% or something around that. that's obviously a hefty sum.
i'm actually thinking of offloading this property already if i can get the right price in the market and buying something a bit closer to the city to knock down and build a large single house on. surely that can't be as complicated as this planning stuff at council.
in summary i don't recommend maroondah council as a target for your next development. i've heard from other developers in the area that knox is better. sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
NATS, thanks for the insight, I get the picture, there are a lot of people with that attitude and I think I can risk saying that it's fuelled by jealousy and it's best to understand their motives and move on to somewhere else
. Building a nice, large single house sounds an attractive option but how do your numbers stack up?Probably a more importnat question is …..in which municipalities are you likley to make a good development profit.
Sure some councils are more difficult to deal with, but this usually means once you have a development approval your property is worth considerably more as you have added even more value by taking away the development risk.
With building costs being much the same across Melbourne, I would concentrate on the more affluent suburbs where property values are increasing and markets are strong rather than the outer suburbs where prices are languishing.
Michael, you do have a point.
I am still interested in other people's experiences with their local councils, especially in the inner suburbs or coastal areas.
vicgirl
MichaelYardney wrote:Probably a more importnat question is …..in which municipalities are you likley to make a good development profit.Sure some councils are more difficult to deal with, but this usually means once you have a development approval your property is worth considerably more as you have added even more value by taking away the development risk.
With building costs being much the same across Melbourne, I would concentrate on the more affluent suburbs where property values are increasing and markets are strong rather than the outer suburbs where prices are languishing.
Hi Michael,Your input is always valued. However, I'm interested on what basis you would suggest that property values are languishing in Maroondah and Knox. Seems to be contrary to recent statistical and anecdotal evidence.Sincere Regards – Benffc1883_1996 wrote:Hi Michael,Your input is always valued. However, I'm interested on what basis you would suggest that property values are languishing in Maroondah and Knox. Seems to be contrary to recent statistical and anecdotal evidence.Sincere Regards – BenBen
I did not mention any specific municipality, but I do know that many inner Melbourne suburbs have exhibited 20%+ growth in the last year while most middle and outer suburbs have only had 9% or so growth. Other outer suburbs have had little growth.
Our experience from doing feasibility studies in many Melbourne suburbs is that projects stack up much better in areas where prices are higher.
There's more flexibility with end values as opposed to some of the less affluent suburbs where prices are capped.
So one of the least importnat criteria we look at when looking for a potential development site is which council is it in. We only look at this to see what their development policy is and how that impacts the potential site.
true michael that the council doesn't really matter. when i do numbers it's based on % and has no bearing what council it is. as far as i am concerned i don't know of a good council.
vicgirl in response to your question, when looking at a single house development i'm more thinking along the lines of inner east, where the sinlge house development will cost me the same as the outer east 3 townhouse development in total and return similar margin overall.
the benefit of single house development is i can live in it as my principle residence for a period, and it's in a more ideal location for me, hence no capital gains tax, GST and council contribution costs to deal with accounting wise. when you factor in those costs the option of living in a place you build which is of good quality is attractive. the inner east market at present has a lot of appetite for $1.2-1.5m properties suprisingly. the hardest thing is getting the house to knock down to stick a new place on.
i would say a lot of the 20% growth we've seen more recently is currently flowing out. i've recently sold property in the outer east near the new freeway and the price recieved exceeded my expectations. indications from properties on the market show that there's currently strength in the outer established market at present as people move out into the next ring of suburbs.
vicgirl wrote:Michael, you do have a point.I am still interested in other people's experiences with their local councils, especially in the inner suburbs or coastal areas.
vicgirl
vicgirl
What you are asking is important to know.
There are some council's that are more anti development such as Boorandara and Bayside, that we know means a longer time to achieve a development approval. This longer holding time means more holding costs – interest – and should be allowed for
Nats and Michael, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
The idea of building a single house has been on my mind too for a while because of it's perceived (?) simplicity. Unfortunately, moving in every second year or so is not so attractive to me at my age and in my circumstances (I've had my fair share of moving in the last 15 years). Would you use a prestige housing company e.g. Porter Davis or a private architect/builder?
Subdividing land or building second dwellings has brought me considerable success in the past so I guess I will pick my favourite areas and visit council offices to gauge their attitudes toward development, proabably go as fas as asking them which neighbourhoods they think would benefit most from such activity. I too believe that some of the outer areas will grow in popularity, especially around the "1.2 million suburbs" as an alternative to those who cannot afford them.
vicgirl
agree, with all of the above.
My next project will be in safety Beach, no experience with that council yet but with the Marina, a lot of development happening.
I've found a builder who will build a 3 bedroom unit at reasonable cost.
he is building some of the marina townhouses.
in this case, I hope to build and hold for the longterm, as I can only see upside in that suburb, sea change, marina etc.
I hope to refinance and then do another one.
The potential CG is much higher than Knox/Maroondah.
However, having done this in those suburbs, has allowed me to 'trade up".
interest rates will continue to increase, so I am careful about over gearing at this time.
Building and moving every couple of years is just not personally feasible for us.
That would be hugely stressful.
In my suburb, I note a brick house has had the bricks taken off and is being take away as a shell for resale.
This house was a 70's colonial style, so clearly, land value has increased enough to make this viable.Anyone contemplating a development should budget for 12 months for planning approval. If you do this you are able to take the decision out of councils hands, should they be unreasonable. You will find it very difficult to find a council that is truelly developer friendly, and even if you manage to get an application through smoothly (which is possible in any municipality) there is always the risk that a neighbour will take you to VCAT. Consequently I really can't see why the councils attitude should even be a consideration, just pick good projects.
Regards
AlistairRegina, it seems like you have done well purchasing in Safety Beach as not many interesting properties seem to be on sale there at the moment. What are your thoughts about buying in Dromana?
vicgirl
Could anyone tell me what sort of price i would have to pay to get a feasibility done,
Hi alice10 – I pay would say around $600 to get a feasibility study done.
. Building a nice, large single house sounds an attractive option but how do your numbers stack up?
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. If you don't have an account, you can register here.
