masterrel, crashy & oneplumber
I wouldn't have expected any other reply from the likes of you. Its like waiving a red flag, any opinions, be they positive or negative and guys like you will jump head first to defend your so-called reputations whether your're right or wrong, very predictable.
I work in the construction industry so my hours are anything but 9-5. You're not the only ones who claim to do irregular hours. I also owned a business for about 10 years and know the ins and outs of small business. In this free market, you guys can try and charge anything you want, whether to get get it is another matter.
I think apprentices are actually fortunate to get paid anything at all. When I was studying and workng to gain the required work experience to graduate, I was paid the grand total of ZERO dollars and was forced to live with my parents until I graduated. So welcome to the real word where everything is not laid out for you on a silver platter.
Why are you complaining anyway, that's the career path you have chosen, or maybe you had no choice because of your lack of sufficient brains cells to do anything else. Still it looks like your all making a good living.
And I don't hear anyone still claiming to be a battler?
Fiori, the awards for apprentices have been around for at least a couple of years (pre-1970's)…. You're showing your age.
As for people working 9-5, I take it that masterrel, crashy & oneplumber would be meaning those who shuffle paper/push buttons on computers & sit on their gas strut chairs all day without seeing sunshine.
I know that Scott, I was making the point that at least apprentices actually are paid whilst they study and learn their trade, whereas other student get sweet F.A.
They get what they're worth
my point exactly, they get what they're worth. I notice that some tradies are whinging that they were poorly paid as apprentices, at least they got something.
Unfortunately, the nature of the beast has changed over the years, you'd take on an apprentice at 14-16 yrs and train them for 4 years. Now, they're expected to have the HSC, be able to drive, get themselves to site etc and get the same pay as a 15-16 yr old. No wonder why they aren't keen to do their time.
In the first 2 yrs they actually cost alot in time and effort (there is lots to learn about working on a site, let alone what they need to learn to do their trade), that's why good 3rd & 4th yr apprentices are worth their weight (they can usually drive by then too).
the only person in this thread with evidence of “suffering from a lack of brain cells” is fiori
just a tip, ignorance is not a great indicator of intellect.
MasterREL wrote:Yes you must know exactly what its like to run a trade business
Tell every tradies wife and kids how good they have got it.Yes you can become so rich that no one wants to take on an apprenticeship and work for the massive C.U.B wages you can earn.I'm sick of 9-5 sheeple telling me how much I should be charging when they have no concept of what it is to run a business.When construction slows down prices come down.Get your bargins then for major projects.I have to concur here, but with a slight difference to the theme.
I used to run PropShops at Golf Clubs, and you can make a decent living at it (around $80-100k for a good business), plus the tax perks as a business owner are good. It's not a million dollar a year job like people think, but it's alright.
We constantly had to watch what type of car we drove, what type of watch we wore, where we went on holidays, the standard of our house etc, etc, as the Members would get their noses out of joint if they saw you making money and getting rich.
They didn't see us working 60-70 hour weeks, while they did their 9 to 5 and hung around the Golf Club all weekend and on their RDO's annoying the $hit out of me while I worked.
So, my point being that you need an incentive to take the risks as a business owner; you need those perks, the higher pay etc, otherwise why do it?
You can sit on your backside in an office, get w'ends and public holidays off, RDO's and make good money with no risk.
Tradies and especially those that are business owners deserve their income
fiori wrote:masterrel, crashy & oneplumber
I wouldn't have expected any other reply from the likes of you. Its like waiving a red flag, any opinions, be they positive or negative and guys like you will jump head first to defend your so-called reputations whether your're right or wrong, very predictable.
I work in the construction industry so my hours are anything but 9-5. You're not the only ones who claim to do irregular hours. I also owned a business for about 10 years and know the ins and outs of small business. In this free market, you guys can try and charge anything you want, whether to get get it is another matter.
I think apprentices are actually fortunate to get paid anything at all. When I was studying and workng to gain the required work experience to graduate, I was paid the grand total of ZERO dollars and was forced to live with my parents until I graduated. So welcome to the real word where everything is not laid out for you on a silver platter.
Why are you complaining anyway, that's the career path you have chosen, or maybe you had no choice because of your lack of sufficient brains cells to do anything else. Still it looks like your all making a good living.
And I don't hear anyone still claiming to be a battler?
I don't see where in my post I was defending my reputation ,but guilty of disputing being told what I should charge.And you hit the nail on the head its a free market so why whine about what other people are charging??? I agree their are heaps of high charging shonk tradies out there tough $hit.
fiori wrote:I think apprentices are actually fortunate to get paid anything at allHmmm yes brilliant statement
why not create even more of a skills shortage so you can pay even more.Bit rich talking down tradies I.Qs when your in construction and also in an apprenticeship.If you were in business then you should already know costs , slowdowns ,economic cycles etc all have to be factored in(maybe you ran your business into the ground??).Otherwise if its so easy and high paying go learn how to do it yourself.
Don't feed me that silver platter tripe I have the utmost respect for tradies that start their own business(actually anyone that starts their own business) its no walk in the park.
You can take this as being defensive or whatever flamebait you want to spit out.Watching the others try to explain things a million times to 9-5 mind-setters is getting old.As for being a battler yes a high % of tradies would be.The only thing I'm complaining about is clueless people like you whining.If you had a bad job take it up with dept of fair trading.At the least ,the tradie might not be able to renew his license and your job should be rectified by D.O.F.T at the tradies expense.You should do your homework well in advance anyway.
I don't understand the constant referral to tradies being of low IQ or lacking brain cells.
Why is this assumed, is it because they didn't go to uni and prefer to do manual work?As a parent, I've noticed there a different types of intelligence. I don't think you are necessarily one type or another, but likely to be stronger in one area……
Three of my kids are the A grade student types. The other struggles to read, but should I buy something in a box that needs to be put together, he's the kid I want to help…. in fact, I'd probably be in the way!
Can he read the instructions? Not really, but he doesn't need them……. what I would give to have that type of intelligence!
To be able to see how things should go together, put them together and understand why it has to go that way. He's only twelve but he's always pointing out easier ways I could do things….Fiori – I am not sure if you like us or hate us, but I hope I can stop your CHIP on your shoulder routine.
I did enjoy your posts, but……….clarify please.
I may not be better then any person on this blog, but I would like to share this info.
I know alot of tradies who have diplomas, degrees and masters in their chosen discipline.
I know a Plumber with an Engineering degree, a Chippy with a Degree in COnstruction Management.
Because now I notice you have got the VIOLIN out, I would love to play it.
I came out of school in the Recession, dug holes in the day for 18 months, 12 hours a day for $40 a day (fuel $20 per day) and then went to Uni at night.
I have 3 trade tickets, a Bachelor of Commerce with a double major and i have tried to do many other courses. Not one of these qualifications gives me the right to charge anyone money.
Oh…… if you think Apprentices get too much, just remember as a student you get can get a low interest loan called HECS.
Get to know a tradie, get them on your side and you will always be looked after.
Skills or not the better you THINK of people the better you treat them and vice versa.
Try helping someone out it will stop you grandstanding all the time.
"fiori wrote:
I think apprentices are actually fortunate to get paid anything at all"Sorry F,
but that is not very sensible at all.
Would you go and work for 40 hours a week;
getting up at 5.30am, working in the cold, the heat, crawling around in roof spaces, under floors, in the dust and the mud and stink, being ordered around by the (often) uncaring boss, who is too lazy/fat to do the dirty work himself and now has you (slave) to do it – for free?Yep; I thought so.
Apprentices don't get paid enough in my book. They are paid only enough that the bosses can get away with mostly. I know there are few goos ones who really look after their boys/girls, pay them more than the award and really go out of their way to teach them the trade, but generally, the apprentices are just treated like cheap slave labour.
And I'm not slinging off just at the building trades either; this also still happens in the golf industry as well. These poor kids start their apprenticeships as a golf pro, get all the crap hours; daylight until dark on saturday and sunday behind the counter, and get left to run the shop all alone as soon as they can balance the cash register, and get paid a pittance. It was the same in my day 1,000 years ago.
It looks like I 've got some rusty old minds thinking, good.
Aprentices have a right to be paid – but no more or less than anyone else who is studying or in training. As I said previously, at least they DO get paid something, TAFE or Uni students get squat – they usually have to spung off their parents or get a part time job. Some very fortunate students get a measley allowance from Austudy – but only if their parents are on the breadline, otherwise they nothing. Apprentices wages, regardless of how small they , are not means tested in this manner.
HECS is a deferred payment system that is garnished from a graduate's wages until it is paid off in full, which can be as high as $30k. It increases in lione with the CPI. Nothing is free.
On the subject of degrees, I have an construction engineering degree and a postgrad diploma in project management. But so what? A degree is only a foot in the door, it doesn't mean you're qualified to make lots of money or important decisions. Only experience and reputation will get you that.
Oneplumber, you can have all the degrees you want, even one for wiping your backside, but it mean anything without related work experience, high level skills and an excellent reputation. I wouldn't employ someone just because they have a degree, the first thing I look at is their experience and references. The degree would maybe come in handy if some govt agency requires a particular person to have a degree.
congrats fiori
you managed to post something without an insult
fiori wrote:It looks like I 've got some rusty old minds thinking, good.
Aprentices have a right to be paid – but no more or less than anyone else who is studying or in training. As I said previously, at least they DO get paid something, TAFE or Uni students get squat – they usually have to spung off their parents or get a part time job. Some very fortunate students get a measley allowance from Austudy – but only if their parents are on the breadline, otherwise they nothing. Apprentices wages, regardless of how small they , are not means tested in this manner.
HECS is a deferred payment system that is garnished from a graduate's wages until it is paid off in full, which can be as high as $30k. It increases in lione with the CPI. Nothing is free.
On the subject of degrees, I have an construction engineering degree and a postgrad diploma in project management. But so what? A degree is only a foot in the door, it doesn't mean you're qualified to make lots of money or important decisions. Only experience and reputation will get you that.
Oneplumber, you can have all the degrees you want, even one for wiping your backside, but it mean anything without related work experience, high level skills and an excellent reputation. I wouldn't employ someone just because they have a degree, the first thing I look at is their experience and references. The degree would maybe come in handy if some govt agency requires a particular person to have a degree.
We are off topic now, but I think that there needs to less emphasis on purely academic training, and more (paid) training on the job in our society.
This gets people into the workforce sooner, helps with the economy as their are more consumers rather than broke Uni students sitting around who can't do much.
For example; nurses (my wife is one). She is one of the Uni trained girls. When she finished her training and hit the floor of the ward for the first time; she was hopeles, and nearly dropped out after 6 months because she couldn't cope. 14 years later she is glad she stuck it out, but it was tough. Now, the girls have to pay more for their training; 4 years, before they see a paycheck. There is less incentive to do it, and the numbers are in shortage; just like the building trade.
In the old days, these girls were trained at the hospital, got paid and started life as well qualified staff.
There was also a good incentive to go into the profession due to the pay and paid training, there were plenty of nurses.
Hi ttman. As you can tell from my username I am an electrician & really don’t appreciate your comments.
You say there’s not much to know about electrical & plumbing, I’m very interested to know what you do for a living as your views on our profession are very disrespectful. If it was so easy to do an apprenticeship & get a contractors everyone would do it, but fortunately for guys in my position there isn’t which opens the doors to make a fortune of customers like you
I make well over $300k per year as an electrical contractor & work 7 hours a day 5 days a week.
I must admit I do have a few workers running around on wages for me, also a few apprentices who make the most for me as I charge them out as tradesman & pay them minimal apprentice wages…Initially I got very angry when I heard your comments, but then started thinking about my anger & situation….
To sum up, I have 22 commercial & 9 domestic investments as well as 3 holiday houses across Australia all thanks to winging customers like yourselfDo what you want with the winging, just keep paying
P.S. A website will never work, we all talk & stick together in regards to pricing. You will find we will only get more & more expensive..
Ohhhhh…
Sorry forgot to tell you the best part!
I’m only 25!
Most of my mates are still in uni & where bagging me leaving school at 15 to start my apprenticeship..
Now I have properties & drive a porsche which they are still living at home…
I have just got my builders license & am in the process of setting up my next business so I can semi retire by 30.So please in future think before you open your big mouth & put a profession down!
Good luck with the investing
Yes, I too am sick of tradesmen who not only charge like wounded bulls, but also often don't do the job properly the first time so need to be called back..
I have maybe 12 electrical jobs I'd like done (additional security lights, changing light shades, a couple of new power points, a bit of a variety of stuff, but totalling 12) at my home, but as none of them is particularly urgent, I've been putting them off for up to 12 years – because it costs so much for an electrician!! So some overcharging tradie out there has missed out for 12 years because they are too expensive. They are their own worst enemy. But they don't see that, as their ego gets in the way.
I had the best lawyer in the world to represent me in my fairly recent family court property settlement. My partner spun the process out for as long as he could get away with, so it cost me $29,000, but my lawyer gained me an additional $197,000, so to me he was worth every cent. I think some lawyer bashers could perhaps weigh up what they've got to gain, before they set out to find a lawyer. Yes they seem expensive, but mine was worth every cent I paid. I became aware during the process that he'd studied accountancy to further his education, & beyond the settlement I discovered he was also in the process of studying child psychology, to have a better understanding of his clients.
There were 2 lawyers at his practise, & between them they had to earn enough to pay 7 staff, including themselves, as well as pay quite high rent, so I'm probably one of the few who could see where his $350 per hour was going.
His name is Martin Hynes, Bunbury, W.A.
Yes, let's name the good service people
…….and as for you "crashy", yes whining & moaning can bring prices down!
I took my only rental property of 13 years off my agent in August, as I couldn't stand the inefficient service any longer I got from the property managers & most other people who attended my property, which included the blind man, electrician, plumber, maintenance men. I'd been asking for 13 years, for any tradies who attended my property, to call me from the job, as I wanted to ascertain whether I was going to pay, or whether the tenant was going to pay for the problem. I think 2 of about 12 (we had a couple of very damaging storms) called me from the job, which I didn't know had been completed til the payment was deducted from my rent. I found out too late each time, that the lack of calls was mostly the fault of the property manager's assistant (assistants should be made to pass some sort of an exam prior to employment!!!!) who didn't request a call be made from the tradies.
So they all lost out, the property management company & the tradies.
I've also found that people who seriously overcharge have their head stuck a long way in where daylight don't go, & they have no perception that they have a disgusting reputation. They also seem to be unaware of karma.Sparky, you are 25 years of age, and you have workers, & you have apprentices???
You have 34 investment properties???
You earn $6,000.00 a week???Hi cuteyoungchic
Yes, if you average out my annual net profit it works out just over that.
Some weeks I don’t get paid at all, but we do domestic which we get paid on completion & commercial work which we get paid in 30 days from invoice date.
Tell every tradies wife and kids how good they have got it.Yes you can become so rich that no one wants to take on an apprenticeship and work for the massive C.U.B wages you can earn.I'm sick of 9-5 sheeple telling me how much I should be charging when they have no concept of what it is to run a business.When construction slows down prices come down.Get your bargins then for major projects.
why not create even more of a skills shortage so you can pay even more.
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