All Topics / Help Needed! / Parents Divorce: How to keep the house?

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  • Profile photo of CJWentworthCJWentworth
    Participant
    @cjwentworth
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 47

    2 years ago my parents split. They are only now starting to finalize the divorce. I don’t want sympathy since I am old enough to understand that it’s their choice and their choice alone. What I need to know is what I can do to help keep the house in the family.

    Anyway a bit of background information first:

    • We are a family of six. 2 parents and 4 “kids”. The eldest (me) is 21, my brother is 19, my sister 17 and my youngest brother 15.
    • My dad is disabled (unable to work) and is nearing retirement. He is 59.
    • My mother is 40 will probably be working for the rest of her life.
    • In 1996 my parents bought a house in Brisbane, QLD. They took out the loan together and bought it as Joint Tenants (joint ownership, whatever).
    • It is now worth 400k, and the outstanding loan is 112k.
    • Since purchase Mom has been constantly working and hence paying the loan repayments off.
    • Dad through an unfortunate series of events has been unable to work consistently and has instead contributed by running the house (cleaning, caring for the kids, and contributing what money he can get through the government)
    • Myself and mom work at the same place at the same pay rate. This is ~42k gross.
    • Dad is on a disability pension, $517 per fortnight, and also receives money to help with the kids that totals to ~550 per fortnight, as he is now seen as a single parent

    So onto the divorce and my understanding of the current situation, and possible actions.

    My Mom intends the house to go to us 4 kids. So she means to do whatever is required to result in the house being split evenly between us 4 kids. Because my Dad is disabled and nearing retirement, he prefers a settlement that will result in him receiving a cash amount, leading me to believe that he wishes for the house to be sold.

    My understanding is that if the 400k house is sold, the 112k will be taken off the sale price and the proceeds split evenly between Dad and Mom. This equates to 288k split, so 144k each (.

    Dad’s asking for ~105k-120k for his “share” of the house. He believes that this will be enough for him to start building his retirement fund on.

    Mom can’t afford to borrow another 105-120k. As she is the only one with an income and it is currently being used to maintain the current loan, as well as help pay for the misc expenses (food, clothes, etc).

    This is where I come in.

    For whatever reason Mom won’t let me buy Dad out, however she will let me buy her out for a “discount”. She wants 20-50k. In the case of me buying Mom out, Dad was willing to keep the house rather than take a cash settlement.

    My Dad’s original plan was for me to simply Replace Mom financially, and hence own the house 50/50 with Dad. Problems arose when Dad stated that he doesn’t want any debt.

    I went on to suggest that if he wishes to be debt free, he must be willing to take only what his equity is as a % of the entire house. As his current equity is ~144k this results in 36% ownership of the house (144k is 36% of 400k). This would leave me with a 132k loan and 64% of the house (112k current loan + 20k to buy mom out).

    This also requires us to go as Tenants in Common.

    I’ve suggested that if Dad wishes to retain 50% ownership, that he will also have to take out a loan equal to mine.

    I wish to know what else could be possible here that results in a fair split between me and my Dad.

    (I know this sounds like a Raw deal for my mom, but she has her reasons for taking 20k and walking away from everything. please don’t think we’re trying to rip her off, I just don’t wish to explain her situation until I ask her)

    Profile photo of gmh454gmh454
    Member
    @gmh454
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 537

    Admire your Mums sentiments, so will give some advice. Am an accountant and as such I have spent 30+ years in depth looking at how many people manage money.

    Work on your Mum and come up with as whatever you can to buy your dad out. Suggest you buy 12.5% ( $50K from your dad 12.50%and $50K 12.50% from your Mum. )In the settlement she will get his 50% and she will need to raise the rest say 5-20K

    Borrow $100K and buy them out from that share
    She has $100K loan

    Can the two of you make things work from that???

    Living at home you should be able to cover interest on $100K

    DO NOT BUY HER OUT AT A DISCOUNT, that’s if you want to have happy Christmas’s with the rest of your brothers and sisters.

    Try to keep the house, because if you do it will stay the family “home” , look after your brothers and sisters as family can be more valuable in life than any investment.

    And support your Mum.

    Profile photo of AdministratorAdministrator
    Keymaster
    @piadmin
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 3,225

    1. You kids create a trust (read up on these)

    2. You kids as JOINT trustees. might be best if parents were trustees ( I Dont know but U find out)

    3. Either or both parents as Settlor (both if desired and or possible or may you couldl be best, do research on this.- definatley not solicitor accoutant etc. (The settlor can fire the trustee)

    4. Look into gifting rules for advantages

    5. Trust or trustee company enters into an agreement with either one or both parents to buy their share of the house.

    6. Purchase contract condition is to buy them out in small chunks at a time (re of centerlink, affordability etc) with option clauses to secure and buy the other chunks.

    7. Trust to have rules about accessibility to purchased chunks by siblings to prevent it being ravaged by sibilings.

    8. Trust to have rules about legitimate access by sibilings at some stage

    – Dont ask legal people if it can be done., ask them HOW TO DO IT. Shop until you drop if needed to find the right legal advisor.- first conultations are usually free, use email etc.

    – write out what has to be agreed on/rules in bullet points in an excerise book. Go over and over it to identify and write in every important point that is to go in the final document. When everyone happy with it take it to the legal people to write up.

    Hope I’ve helped – eddie

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    The only problem with that Eddie is that the house will lose its CGT free status and the Land tax free status.

    Another problem is the settlor can never receive a distribution from the trust.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of CJWentworthCJWentworth
    Participant
    @cjwentworth
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 47

    sorry guys I’ve been getting used to this forum and wasn’t able to find this post lol. I’ve read the comments and will reply asap :)

    Profile photo of elkamelkam
    Member
    @elkam
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 722

    Hello CJWentworth

    Maybe I’m wrong but from your original post I get the idea that you and your brothers and sister are now living with your father in the house as the carer and not your mother.

    The only reason I am asking is that if this is the case I am not sure if GMH454s’ plan will work as it changes the dynamics of the situation.

    Profile photo of CJWentworthCJWentworth
    Participant
    @cjwentworth
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 47
    Originally posted by elkam:

    Hello CJWentworth

    Maybe I’m wrong but from your original post I get the idea that you and your brothers and sister are now living with your father in the house as the carer and not your mother.

    The only reason I am asking is that if this is the case I am not sure if GMH454s’ plan will work as it changes the dynamics of the situation.

    Actually I moved out 2 years ago. If I were to be “buying” myself into the situation I would probably end up moving back home, however my preference would be to continue living on my own.

    The “offer” from Mom and Dad at the moment (it continues to change as they continue discussion) is 20k from me to “buy” mom out, and myself and my Dad take out separate loans and join own the house under Joint Tenancy.

    ie, the current loan of 112k is split evenly between me and dad, then I take out a further 20k. Dad has a 56k loan, I have 76k.

    At the moment I don’t think anyone’s considered a legal Carer for my Dad. How would that effect things?

    Eddie: I’ve been looking at a situation similar to that except instead of buying the family home, me and my siblings buy properties together.

    Profile photo of elkamelkam
    Member
    @elkam
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 722
    Originally posted by CJWentworth:

    At the moment I don’t think anyone’s considered a legal Carer for my Dad. How would that effect things?

    Sorry I must have phrased that very badly.

    What I meant was that it sounded as if the plan was for your dad to stay in the house to look after your siblings and your mum to move out. GMH454 scenario I think worked on the assumption that it would be your mother that was staying in the house with the kids.

    Good luck
    Elka

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