All Topics / Help Needed! / IS THE GREAT AUSTRALIAN DREAM FINALLY DEAD!!!!!!!!

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  • Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    I agree F;
    if we can advise people of the potential dangers as well as the way to success then we should do it; telling others of the not so good news may save a few financial disasters along the way.

    The outlook may  be gloomy, but you can be prepared. It's like looking outside and seeing a gloomy sky; you take an umbrella.

    Profile photo of foundationfoundation
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    Cheers Marc, I agree. In life I'm actually a very upbeat person who looks forward to embracing the future with all its challenges. I also suspect that natural and economic forces (energy/resource scarcity and the consequences of overindebtedness among others) might in the future actually bring societal trends and focus back to things that are really important; family and personal wellbeing for example, rather than more, bigger, mine, faster, shinier, gimme, outofmyway, lookatmelookatmelookatMEEEEEE!

    People, not stuff. Us, not me versus them. Our lives, not my life. Living life, not simply consuming it.

    Perhaps I’m just overly-optimistic! ;-)

    Profile photo of blogsblogs
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    foundation wrote:
    Cheers Marc, I agree. In life I'm actually a very upbeat person who looks forward to embracing the future with all its challenges. I also suspect that natural and economic forces (energy/resource scarcity and the consequences of overindebtedness among others) might in the future actually bring societal trends and focus back to things that are really important; family and personal wellbeing for example, rather than more, bigger, mine, faster, shinier, gimme, outofmyway, lookatmelookatmelookatMEEEEEE!

    People, not stuff. Us, not me versus them. Our lives, not my life. Living life, not simply consuming it.

    Perhaps I’m just overly-optimistic! ;-)

    Always enjoy your posts foundation and for most parts have always agreed, however Im starting to swing the other way. I think the biggest factor to take into account is peoples attititude to debt is totally changing. No longer are they looking at home loans with a view to pay it off, they are looking at the level of debt they can service with a view to sell in the future. As long as people can manage to service the debt I can see levels will keep increasing.

    The economy is very strong with no signs of slowing, and people have soooo much more disposable income these days and could easily divert some of this towards even more mortgage repayments. Also another factor to consider is Australia has always followed Americas lead by about 10 -20 years and in the States their attitude to debt is even different again-they LOVE IT, they put EVERYTHING on credit and all have to have the biggest, best and newest things and there are many many place where the majority just will never be able to afford to buy and will have to rent-the majority of housing in the capital cities is just un achievable to buy for the average person, however in Australia it is still very much achievable to even buy a nice period style home in the middle of a CBD, so IMHO I think we still have a way to go.

    The other biggest problem is what people should do and what they do do are often two COMPLETELY diofferent things, so trying to argue points of view based on 'rational thinking' sometimes just doesnt apply unfortunately ;)

    Profile photo of foundationfoundation
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    blogs wrote:
    Always enjoy your posts foundation and for most parts have always agreed, however Im starting to swing the other way.

    As long as the other way is towards disagreement, not hating my posts. Healthy debate needs people who hold strong opposing beliefs.

    On the matter of comparing Australia and the US, I think we're starting to set trends, not follow them. The chart below show household debt in Aus vs US. A similar thing can be seen in our national savings rate which went negative well before the US’ did.

    Courtesy of Steve Keen (http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/)

    Quote:
    I think the biggest factor to take into account is peoples attititude to debt is totally changing. No longer are they looking at home loans with a view to pay it off, they are looking at the level of debt they can service with a view to sell in the future. As long as people can manage to service the debt I can see levels will keep increasing.

    No argument there. You have to admit though that at some point, debt to income or debt servicing costs must level off. There is a ceiling beyond which debt cannot continue to grow faster than incomes? If so, is not the simple implication is that at some point in the future, house price growth will be limited to the rate of income growth?

    On attitude: Is there a possibility that debt might in the future be considered something to be avoided rather than embraced? Again, I think of my grandparents who were raised in a time where they could see the outcome of their parents generation's profligate spending and spendthrift attitudes to debt.

    I already see a change in many of my friends who in their mid 20s to mid 30s have set aside the dream of owning a half-decent home. Some of them are the thriftiest people I've ever known, managing to live busy and fun lives while saving large portions of their wage. The number of my close friends who have saved over $100,000 cash (plus share/managed fund investments) on fairly ordinary incomes can't be counted on one hand. A couple have multiples of that amount.

    A number of them (including myself) don't have credit cards or any debt at all. Keep an eye out for the trend among trendy GenX/Ys towards not wearing brands, not enslaving themselves to mobile phones or isolating themselves between earplugs. Perhaps this is the beginning of a new mindset? Choose your own path (ala The Barefoot Investor)? Attitudes change. A changing attitude to debt (perhaps enforced by economic reality) could be powerful enough to remove the speculative premium currently existing in house prices.

    Quote:
    The economy is very strong with no signs of slowing, and people have soooo much more disposable income these days and could easily divert some of this towards even more mortgage repayments.

    Make no mistake, the economy is only strong because of the amount of debt we are taking on! If the rate of debt growth (which currently contributes a record >15% to demand) were to fall to sustainable levels (roughly half), we would be in recession already. We are effectively trying to borrow our way to prosperity!

    Households are already paying a far higher percentage of their income to the bank in interest than ever before! And then theres:

    • 12.5%—The amount by which bankruptcies had increased in the 9 months to March.
    • 51.6%—The proportion of people surveyed by the financial advisory firm, iPac, who report feeling secure in their finances, the lowest reading since the series began in March 2005.
    • 32%—The growth in debt agreements, which offer the chance to consolidate debts to avoid bankruptcy, in the 9 months to March 2007.
    • 1984—The year when housing affordability was last this low.
    • 30,000—The current number of bankruptcies per year.
    • 2720—The number of claims for the repossession of land lodged with the Supreme Court of Victoria over the year to April, the highest for 6 years.
    • 12%—The proportion of household disposable income used to meet interest repayments (note: this is just only the interest payment, not including the principal!).
    • 14.2%—The percentage of sub-prime securitised loans that are in arrears for 30 days or more, the highest since December 2000.

    Source: http://www.theage.com.au/media/2007/06/01/1180205514673.html

    None of which makes me think that households are in a position to borrow considerably more money. They indicate to me that people are struggling already despite the apparently booming economy. Goodness knows how they'll go when the (inevitable) recession occurs! Further evidence for this is the populace's apparent intention to oust the government later in the year. If people see a booming economy, they certainly don’t feel that they’re getting part of the pie.

    Cheers, F. [cowboy2]

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    Let me say at the outset, home affordability is at historical lows, so let's lay of the young fella. We older types can bang on about how tough it was in our day but it is materially and objectively more difficult today.

    http://www.rba.gov.au/ChartPack/output_expenditure_activity_fincon.pdf

    As regards the "Housing Rocks" debate:

    If you owned tulip bulbs in the 17th century, it would have been *really cool* if a single bulb was really worth tens of thousands of today's dollars rather than best seen as a nice present for your mother

    If you owned tech stocks in early 2000, it would have been *really cool* if the incredible price:earnings multiples that were in play truly reflected a "new" economy, not just a herd mentality.

    If you own property, it would be *really cool* if the value of all houses went up all the time and were not a function of accumulation of personal debt at the expense of production and a skewed tax system, both of which can change.

    This does not mean that residential property is not a good investment (generally it is, as it commerical property, equities et al). It just means that it is worth taking the time to understand the "what ifs" and ensure you don't become one of the people I am obliged to deal with on a regular basis who "bought the dream", ignored the risk/realities and are facing bankruptcy.

    There is no Magic Pudding.

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    Acknowledging current challenges is one thing. The ability to moan with your head in the sand is another. The same ignorance that leads to many views and comments, is too often the very thing that maintains a persons inability to innovate. Educating yourself financially is the only sure way out of this.

    To remove negative gearing, you remove rental properties. This creates an even higher demand for housing. If you make the effort to learn a market, you can always buy below value. If you make the effort to learn about mortgages, you can always find a way to have your house pay for at least half of it's cost, sometimes all of it.

    I hear people say 'Don't buy now, it's booming and the market's inflated', others will say 'Don't buy now, property is going backward'. Ten years later, you'll hear them all say 'I wish I'd bought ten years ago'.

    The next ten years will pass us by anyway. In ten years, will you be proud of the way you've innovated and the future you've created? Or, will you be proud of the myriad of excuses you've developed and social circle you've maintained that justify ignorant logic?

    Profile photo of dreamingdreaming
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    I use to think how can houses keep going up like they have in the past, then I read an article about home ownership. The fact that 70% of people are currently in the housing market either buying or own their own home plus investment properties. Then take into account people on average sell their family home every 7 to 10 years, so by upgrading their home this puts upward pressure on well located property. Location Location Location.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    Have you got the message yet Pete?

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    Hey Pete,

    I don't like the idea of buying a house right now simply because I think houses in most capital cities (and elswhere) around Australia are over-valued.  I think renting is much better value.

    I live in Sydney and even though prices in some of the suburbs here have dropped, I just couldn't see myself forking out a large portion of my income for a big portion of my life to own a 2/3 bedroom house in an average suburb. I'd feel like a real sucker if I did that.

    I might not be as financially literate as a lot of people here, but I know one thing about business: If it's not worth the price, don't buy it. Most people live by that principle when it comes other monetary purchases in life but not with property. I guess because it's an emotional decsion.

    So in short, I can understand your frustration. But don't worry. When bananas were overpriced last year, people didn't lose it (although I saw some pretty distressed chimps at the zoo one time). Many people simply just didn't buy bananas.

    So what's the difference with property? It's not like it's the end of the world. There's always going to be other stuff on the shelves.

    Just my opinion. Best of luck.

    Dan

    Profile photo of peterhutchypeterhutchy
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    L.A Aussie wrote:
    Have you got the message yet Pete?

    Hi Marc,

    To tell you the truth I'm quite overwhelmed by the total responce this post has created.

    The many arguments from all sides has certainly given me a lot t think about.

    I still think more debate needs to be created on the issue in society as a whole, the issue definately gets some coverage in the media but considering the amount of people affected by the issue I think it certainly needs a whole a lot more.

    For those interested in what I've been up to since I started this thread back in November last year I'll sum it up for you;
    – I've gotten out of the ratrace…..otherwise known as Perth. Elders have given me my first country posting in Lake Grace which a small wheatbelt town located in the Upper Great Southern region of WA.

    – I've joined a political party (young nationals), represent of the regions is an issue I believe in (I don't see any open pits mines or broadacre crops in St Georges Tce or any of the other CBD districts of other capital cities). It also given me the opportunity to raise these issues with politicians.

    – I've organised finance to $150K (I could go for more but I see investing, property or otherwise as a process and i do not wish to bite off more than I can chew to begin with).

    – Places that i have been looking to invest include Morwell, Mildura, Moe and Sale in regional VIC or Duddo in Regional NSW. I've been checking these places out on the internet and from what I can see some of the properties in these locations represent good value. Most are within a couple of hours drive to the nearset capital city, all have populations of 10K+ and these is a decent amount of public services in these areas eg trains etc.

    – Now i have to look at managing the risks associated with buying an investment property sight unseen. I know in many ways it would be smart to start by buying something a little closer to home but WA is too vast in many cases and the pace where posative cashflow properties are available are in the rural regions eg Lake Grace where no Property Management services are availiable. Anything else wihtin a 4 hour radius of Perth and a population of 10K+ I feel lacks value.

    Anyways I'm getting a little off track now.

    Once again thanks everyone for your replies and if you could please keep them coming the arguments and point of views raised in this thread can be used to raise further issues.

    P.S. Looking at some of the comments where an overly great amount of THRIFFTYNESS is involed is something I do not agree with. …………….Yes I agree people need to be responsible with their money (something thats needs to be taught a school over some of the less practial subjects like calculus) but life is meant to be lived and so long as you stick to a budget (which includes entertainment expenses) and pay off non-deductable debt 1st eg credit cards these nothing wrong living a little (so long as you can afford it). I've found most of the older generation that go on about how hard they had it compared to kids of today are just plain "full of sh*t) or tight old miserable bast**ds.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    Peter, that was a good post that ended badly.

    Good to see we have helped you change your mindset and get stuck into it, but…..

    The old people I know who are tight are that way because they have no money.
    The old people I know who are rich are very, very generous and live life well.
    When you consider that the current "old" generation consists mostly of pensioners, then it stands to reason that you will run into a lot of old people who annoy you with the comments that you mentioned.
    Go easy on them; you'll be old one day.
    Instead, listen and learn from the poor oldies how not to end up like them – don't do what they have done, and do what the rich oldies have done. They've been there and done that.

    Old people are not necessarily full of shit. If you remember back to your original post; you were full of shit and it pissed all of us off.

    The old people did have it tough;
    they had the depression, the second world war (conscription), vietnam and agent orange, one-car families (if they had a car at all).

    They didn't have;
    Ipods, computers, on-line banking, atm's, email, HD tv, dvd's, GPS and mapquest, google, microwaves, drive thru take-away, 24 hour trading, no interest for 2 years finance on everything, Hecs, bulk billing, luxury 4 wheel drives, cheap air travel, credit and debit cards, packet everything food, fan-forced fridges, climate control, ensuites, disneyland, flu shots, plastic bags, aluminium beer cans, vending machines, cell phones, cordless phones, no operator long distance calls, text messaging, fax machines, light weight pushbikes and tents, freeways weren't invented, infra red rays, supermarkets, home delivery pizza, pre-mix spirits in a can, imitation gas log fires, velcro, gore-tex, 38 hour weeks, insinkerators, webcam, digital technology, netflix

    DO I NEED TO GO ON??

    Profile photo of zenqzenq
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    Good to see Pete has weighed back in, and is taking some action and has benefitted from the considerable advice proffered.

    I'm 35, and felt just the same a year or 2 out of Uni.  I know myself, I was used to getting good things pretty easily: a Uni degree, overseas travel: left Uni with credit card debt ad Hecs debt.

    I've invested in real estate, always borrowing to my limit, often using credit cards to complete steps, gearing very heavily and carrying lots of debt (more than anyone I know).  Over the next year I'm hoping it will pay off as I complete a rural subdivision.  I'm hoping to pay off my home and purchase another, larger rural block.

    I add my story not to say "look how easy it is" but rather to put these points forward:
    1. I looked and looked for something I could afford: Eventually bought a 8acre bush block in a rural subdivision area (1 acre blocks) for 50k: less than the 1 acre blocks.  I found it by walking 10k from town out to the subdivision: had I driven I would have missed it because it was so overgrowth with weeds.  I've yet to see a cheaper block in the region I live in (Cairns).  It really was an ugly duckling.  I have worked incredibly hard on the block to improve it over the last 5 years.

    2.  I've had to curtail my lifestyle a fair bit, but I must admit I'm hopeless at tightening my belt and continually struggle with credit card debt etc: I just haven't developed a frugal attitude/lifestyle: I guess like Pete I think lifes for living.  I really believe we aren't as tough as previous generations: I know I've had an easy life and glad of it.  Having said that, often the experiences, the travel, the education, the technology pay off to improve our sophistication as workers/investors/creative thinkers.  Being frugal is really great, but sometimes, in the world we live in, its not the best way: it may be part of your strategy but its not a complete strategy, it has to be balanced with proactive actions like hunting for deals or using leverage.

    3.  In my situation, I've only kept moving forward rather than going broke through steady price growth in my region.  I had some tough times initially where I would spend money on construction on a vacant block, to find the improved block wasn't worth what I spent on it.  I did most of the work myself on a budget, and perhaps I would have been better (or worse) off employing a builder.  I have to be realistic: its only price inflation of the real estate I'd bought that kept me bouyant (because I'd started with no savings and $35k income, and debt).  In a declining market, I would have had to abort, or even gone bankrupt.  looking back, I see myself as impatient, greedy and reckless.  It looks like it should pay off.

    Reading Petes original Post, its clear to me now how I wanted things now!  I could see (from media and sites like this) that a boom was coming and I needed to get on the train or miss out. I was impatient and greedy, but with good reason.  I've now got tonnes more debt, but two great properties and an exit strategy which should leave me in a good position.  I got close enough to bankruptcy to realise in slightly different circumstances how easy it is to fail when the boom-tide changes unexpectedly

    I know a lot of my generation wants the nice house in the nice suburb straight out of Uni.  Clearly, it wouldn't kill them to save for a few years, do it tough for a while, go without etc.  They are hard things to hear, with the impatience and impetuousness of youth: I'm sure human nature hasn't changed.

    My advice: keep looking for the deal or the ethical method that will build your wealth.  Don't be afraid to take baby steps: as people have said, its all good education.  I spent 6 months solidly researching and hunting before I bought my first place, and years since learning more.  There are opportunities out there: they take time and money, but you have both, and plenty more to come.

    Good luck if you do decide to push the envelope and improve your circumstances.  The anger you feel is felt by many: it sounds like you will be one of those who uses it to change their situation rather than let it defeat them.

    We need that sort of discomfort to motivate us to improve our lot.

    Profile photo of peterhutchypeterhutchy
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    L.A Aussie wrote:
    Peter, that was a good post that ended badly.

    Good to see we have helped you change your mindset and get stuck into it, but…..

    The old people I know who are tight are that way because they have no money.
    The old people I know who are rich are very, very generous and live life well.
    When you consider that the current "old" generation consists mostly of pensioners, then it stands to reason that you will run into a lot of old people who annoy you with the comments that you mentioned.
    Go easy on them; you'll be old one day.
    Instead, listen and learn from the poor oldies how not to end up like them – don't do what they have done, and do what the rich oldies have done. They've been there and done that.

    Old people are not necessarily full of shit. If you remember back to your original post; you were full of shit and it pissed all of us off.

    The old people did have it tough;
    they had the depression, the second world war (conscription), vietnam and agent orange, one-car families (if they had a car at all).

    They didn't have;
    Ipods, computers, on-line banking, atm's, email, HD tv, dvd's, GPS and mapquest, google, microwaves, drive thru take-away, 24 hour trading, no interest for 2 years finance on everything, Hecs, bulk billing, luxury 4 wheel drives, cheap air travel, credit and debit cards, packet everything food, fan-forced fridges, climate control, ensuites, disneyland, flu shots, plastic bags, aluminium beer cans, vending machines, cell phones, cordless phones, no operator long distance calls, text messaging, fax machines, light weight pushbikes and tents, freeways weren't invented, infra red rays, supermarkets, home delivery pizza, pre-mix spirits in a can, imitation gas log fires, velcro, gore-tex, 38 hour weeks, insinkerators, webcam, digital technology, netflix

    DO I NEED TO GO ON??

    Marc,

    Aren't Ipods, computers, atms, internet banking, etc etc all just apart of "progress" in general if we didn't have these technologies and convieniences Austalia would be a backward 3rd world nation. After all it has been said that today we are in the Information Age and not the Industrial age.

    As for the 38 hour week, who work those anymore????????? Last I heard Australia had overtaken Japan in average hours worked per week to become ranked I think number 2 in the world of developed nations for average hours worked per week.

    Besides as much as the above mentioned technologies make life easier by stream lining day to day life it also makes it alot faster/harder.

    Since the advent of moblies and esspecially emails you can pretty much be contacted anywhere anytime has many advantages but just as many disadvantages.

    Profile photo of peterhutchypeterhutchy
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    zenq wrote:
    Good to see Pete has weighed back in, and is taking some action and has benefitted from the considerable advice proffered.

    I'm 35, and felt just the same a year or 2 out of Uni.  I know myself, I was used to getting good things pretty easily: a Uni degree, overseas travel: left Uni with credit card debt ad Hecs debt.

    I've invested in real estate, always borrowing to my limit, often using credit cards to complete steps, gearing very heavily and carrying lots of debt (more than anyone I know).  Over the next year I'm hoping it will pay off as I complete a rural subdivision.  I'm hoping to pay off my home and purchase another, larger rural block.

    I add my story not to say "look how easy it is" but rather to put these points forward:
    1. I looked and looked for something I could afford: Eventually bought a 8acre bush block in a rural subdivision area (1 acre blocks) for 50k: less than the 1 acre blocks.  I found it by walking 10k from town out to the subdivision: had I driven I would have missed it because it was so overgrowth with weeds.  I've yet to see a cheaper block in the region I live in (Cairns).  It really was an ugly duckling.  I have worked incredibly hard on the block to improve it over the last 5 years.

    2.  I've had to curtail my lifestyle a fair bit, but I must admit I'm hopeless at tightening my belt and continually struggle with credit card debt etc: I just haven't developed a frugal attitude/lifestyle: I guess like Pete I think lifes for living.  I really believe we aren't as tough as previous generations: I know I've had an easy life and glad of it.  Having said that, often the experiences, the travel, the education, the technology pay off to improve our sophistication as workers/investors/creative thinkers.  Being frugal is really great, but sometimes, in the world we live in, its not the best way: it may be part of your strategy but its not a complete strategy, it has to be balanced with proactive actions like hunting for deals or using leverage.

    3.  In my situation, I've only kept moving forward rather than going broke through steady price growth in my region.  I had some tough times initially where I would spend money on construction on a vacant block, to find the improved block wasn't worth what I spent on it.  I did most of the work myself on a budget, and perhaps I would have been better (or worse) off employing a builder.  I have to be realistic: its only price inflation of the real estate I'd bought that kept me bouyant (because I'd started with no savings and $35k income, and debt).  In a declining market, I would have had to abort, or even gone bankrupt.  looking back, I see myself as impatient, greedy and reckless.  It looks like it should pay off.

    Reading Petes original Post, its clear to me now how I wanted things now!  I could see (from media and sites like this) that a boom was coming and I needed to get on the train or miss out. I was impatient and greedy, but with good reason.  I've now got tonnes more debt, but two great properties and an exit strategy which should leave me in a good position.  I got close enough to bankruptcy to realise in slightly different circumstances how easy it is to fail when the boom-tide changes unexpectedly

    I know a lot of my generation wants the nice house in the nice suburb straight out of Uni.  Clearly, it wouldn't kill them to save for a few years, do it tough for a while, go without etc.  They are hard things to hear, with the impatience and impetuousness of youth: I'm sure human nature hasn't changed.

    My advice: keep looking for the deal or the ethical method that will build your wealth.  Don't be afraid to take baby steps: as people have said, its all good education.  I spent 6 months solidly researching and hunting before I bought my first place, and years since learning more.  There are opportunities out there: they take time and money, but you have both, and plenty more to come.

    Good luck if you do decide to push the envelope and improve your circumstances.  The anger you feel is felt by many: it sounds like you will be one of those who uses it to change their situation rather than let it defeat them.

    We need that sort of discomfort to motivate us to improve our lot.

    Thank you for your imput it is greatly appreciated.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    That's right Peter; those inventions are part of progress. Aren't we lucky to have them, or are you still not sure about how bad life is?

    But those whinging old people who "had it tough' didn't have them.
    That's the point and you missed it.
    You don't know what a hard life is.
    Try walking in their shoes for a year before you critisise them and call them full of shit.

    "Since the advent of moblies and esspecially emails you can pretty much be contacted anywhere anytime has many advantages but just as many disadvantages."

    O.K my boy; let's see you go for 12 months without your computer, mobile phone, a car, drive through food, microwave or processed food in general, atm's, a debit and credit card.

    Let's see you go down to the Bank in your lunch hour to get some money out using the teller, cook all your own food in a convection oven or fry pan, don't go to any convenience stores after 6.00pm (because in the old days they were all closed – but you're too young to know), use public transport, write letters and use pay phones to contact people.

    I reckon you'd last about a week.

    The old bastards did it for oh, about 40 years of their lives until the Information and Technology age kicked in and made life easy;

    you know … life as you know it.

    Profile photo of grumpyoldchickgrumpyoldchick
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    Peter – If you were my child I would slap you for taking that attitude!!!!  Why??  Because my son is 21, an apprentice who earns considerably less than a uni graduate does, and actually has planned for his futute rather than just hoping that we dont reverse mortgage the family home so we can buy Harleys and ride through the swiss Alps until there is no equity left!  He has knuckled down while living at home, still drives the same $500 car he bought when he got his learners at 16, and takes jam sandwiches to work for lunch.  He  also bought his first investment property last year, which he plans to pay off as quickly as possible; hopefully will add another 1 or 2 in the next few years, and then at a time in the future that suits, will sell to realise the gain and use this for his first home.  Other than the fact he has a penchant for purple mohawks and loud guitars, he is obviously one of the growing number of young people who have realised that life will not be handed to them on a platter, and have taken steps to insure their futures.  This will obviously not apply to you, as injecting ice users have limited tenure on this planet, so I suggest you change your attitude, and when you realise that the world doesnt owe you a living, you can take that first step to secure your own financial future rather than waiting for your parents to drop dead!!  (and by the way, its not the kids inheritance until we decide it is….it is our hard earned money and we will spend it as we see fit)

    You want angry????? Im angry!!!!!!!!!

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    Well said G.O.C,

    But I think you're wasting your time;

    We haven't heard from Pete for a while now; I think he has folded up the tent.

    Good story about your Son though!

    One thing; if he has committed to this caper, then get in touch with a good property savvy Mortgage Broker (there are a few on this site) to check his Loan structure to make sure it is set up correctly for the future. Get a few second opinions too. 

Viewing 17 posts - 101 through 117 (of 117 total)

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