Hi All
Before I VENT I want to clarify that I know there are competent and ethical solicitors and conveyancers out there. Its just a pity none of them are involved in our current deals.
Currently trying to buy 2 IPs:
1. After initial price negotiations the vendor accepted $220k, standard 6 week settlement, $1k deposit and access prior to settlement to measure, obtain quotes for paint etc (house is vacant).Contract took 2 weeks to arrive and didn’t acknowledge any of the terms. Our solicitor requested acknowedgement and the written reply was “no access prior for any purpose, 10% deposit in the form of a deposit bond, oh..and by the way, the vendor would be able to settle in as little as 10 days” Yeah, right!
I rang the agent who spoke to the vendor and advised he had no issue with the access at all, knew nothing of thedeposit bond request, but had been advised to get a higher deposit. We finally agreed with the vendor on 5% deposit, signed our contract and assumed we would finally exchange. 3 days later, their conveyancer is still not accepting anyhting less than 10% deposit. Our sol rang the agent and suggested the vendor give his conveyancer firm instructions immediately or lose the sale. We now hope to exchange on Monday – some 3 weeks later. Oh – and he would still like to settle early. Fat chance.
2. Same area, different agent and solicitor. Sale was by written tender, due 31 May. Our tender contained 3 options varying in price and settlemet periods, but all with $1k deposit and access prior to settlement to renovate (deceased estate, empty for ages, bathroom not functional, kitchen works but hideous etc). On 1 June we were advised that our highest price had been accepted (suprise suprise)along with the above terms and a 16 week settlement.
A week later the contract arrived with a letter stating no access for any purpose, 10% deposit required and no mention of extended settlement. Once again I rang the agent who discovered that the elderly sibling vendors had never sold a property before and took the solicitors word as gospel. Trouble is, they hadn’t explained the contract ie in the event we don’t settle they get their 10% deposit in full, and other protections. The agent went through it all with them and they agreed again to access in exchange for a written undertaking that we would return the house to its former condition if we didn’t settle, but weren’t comy with the deposit. We agreed to a slightly higher deposit along with unconditonal exchange, but advised we would walk away if any more mucking around.
We instructed our solicitor to put the new terms in writing, along with our intention to withdraw our offer if they did not accept. Today we received a copy of that letter – 3 sentences that my 8 year old could have written, and that certainly did not convey clearly the finality of our offer. This is the same solicitor we used for previous NSW buys in 2003, but it seems he might have lost the plot since then.
We may as well have been doing our own conveyancing since we have had to instruct him every step of the way so far, and even had to point out that the 149 cert in one contract was 2.5 yrs old, and it contained a lease that was 3 yrs old (despite buying as vacant posession). Between the incompetenceand inflexibility of all the legal parties involved, it will be amazing if either sale actually goes through. Most of our IPs are in QLD and we have never encountered such problems before.
Anyone else encountered this type of problem?
Wake
Good onya Wake. You appear to be a competent and intelligent property investor. These type of investors usually get frustrated with the service providers they deal with…..especially the lawyer types who naturally assume you are all cloth ears and really really really need their help in every matter.
As you’ve found out via experience this is usually not the case, especially if you are very competent.
i could tell you a few crackers about lawyers….but my fingers would hurt typing it all out and basically far too frustrating to recount. Suffice to say they’ll all stand there with their arms folded and tell you they are qualified professionals and absolutely did everything perfectly and will never never never admit to anything.
Best advice I can give you is to move on / over / around these clowns. I’ve done deals with vendors before and everything has gone swimmingly for both parties.
It’s amazing when all of these hangers on / advisers / experts suddenly get in the way of the deal and sometimes stuff it up so royally that one of the formerly keen parties throws up there hands and walks away…..and everyone in the circle of incompetence loses….but not nearly as much as the two primary parties.
The worst advice I can give you is :
Seek independent legal advice…..bah….humbug.
P.S. Have a quick squizz of the legislation that pertains to your particular circumstances…..Lawyers aren’t the only ones that can read legislation.
hi Wake – access is a funny one – although I always ask for it – I never give it when selling – there are good reasons for that!
I Buy Property http://www.cashflowproperties.co.nz
Hi Wake
Goodness, no wonder you’re frustrated. I’m sure I don’t need to state that lawyers and conveyancer’s should always act according to their client’s instructions and it look from the facts you’ve given that they failed to do this in both cases. Did you sign written contracts containing the terms? If so, then there is absolutely no excuse for the cock ups.
Many solicitors do however advise their clients not to allow access prior to settlement, even under a licence, as there is potential for some difficult situations to occur if the sale doesn’t proceed. However, I agree with you that 9 times out of 10 early access works very well. Also, they often advise not to accept a small deposit for similar reasons – the issues here depend on the State that you buy in.
It’s unfortunate that you’ve had two bad experiences. Property lawyers and conveyancers traditionally operate many, many files at any given time so there’s argubly more scope for errors in that area of law – and statistics show that in general to be true. However, there is still no excuse.
If you have any more problems I’d consider writing to the head of the firm stating your complaint and that you’ll report the compaint to your State’s Law Institute if it is not resolved efficiently. You have a right to decent service in the same way as you do from any other professional.
Oh and Dazzling I know you have had some bad experience of lawyers but please everyone accept the manjority of us are extremely competent and professional – and proud – of what we do – just like other professions.
Wake, let us know how it goes from here – and please send me a PM if you want to discuss further. Good luck!
hi wake
we deal with this incomperdence on a daily basis welcome to the world of property investing [strum]hi Wake
there is no easy answer to your problem.
What I do is get everything in writing and if you have done a deal send the real estate and the vendor a copy of what you see as the deal via email.
then follow up with them sending it back so you have a copy.
then deal done.
you then send the deal to your solicitor and he talks to there.
in that email is all the main part of the deal.
price.
time frame
access
If they can stay on after you own it
etc.
get as much of what you want in the deal in that email and send to the real estate,vendor not the solicitors as they don’t need to get involved at this stage.
once the deal is done thats it bar the legals doing there job.
yes you do still get legal stuff ups and they are not something new but you and the vendor are on the same footing and any problem is alot easier to get over.
oh and Housemender by nature most legals are very conservative in there aproach to deals and yes my legals do a very good job and its not taking anything from michael my legals ability to do his job but he usually gets involved at the end not the start I am sure he would like to be at the front but thats the way I do it and it does go relatively smoothly this way for me.
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