Property bust not here yet … worse to come

Quote – "Until we have politicians who encourage people to SAVE we will continue to be weak … MONEY and WEALTH is all about EQUITY it's not how many you own but how much cash you are worth …""

I agree with you but everytime we save we get charged a tax from the interest earned.  So why bother saving it in the bank.  i would rather invest it.

Shareholders unfortunately have very little say in executive renumerations.
Have you noted that the directors allocate their salary and the CEO salary, talk about the elite bunch, these are the ones that we will be beheading at the rallies when the masses rise up, you know like the French Revolution.
As a shareholder you get to vote for the directors ( who choose themselves and all their mates ), you can sometimes even vote on executive salary packages ( but the directors get most of the votes – since most shareholders don't vote or muck it up so they step in and vote for you ). Even if it somehow passes the directors overrule the decision anyway and give themselves a pay rise, its just not right, what is the government doing to stop this…. Nothing as they get kickbacks and money from the companies.

The world has run its course in the last few decades of spend spend spend and expand expand expand etc the logarithmic chart has hit the wall, we are in for a long and painful recession, we will all need to now start to live within our means ( and the planets ability to support us ). Lets hope its not too painful.

Perhaps the flaws and failures of the large company structure is being exposed, once and for all, and investment will drift away from this structure.  Too much distance between control and ownership of the asset.  What about what has happened with Pacific Brands.  We study this in university, distance between control and ownership and the problems that it creates, and what can be done about it.  Pehaps shareholders need a committee of shareholders to counter the power and self interest of the board.

Seperately, I'm interested in the "farming will make money" claim a few posts back.  I've long considered buying viable farming country, in a good rainfall area, with enough altitude to escape rising seas (who knows whose right about that one), and located in an area expected to not get drier with global warming.  I have a district in mind.  The land is already very dear there, despite being a long way from a capital city.  The world is not growing enough food.  The population is expanding.  Economic collapse does not mean that people will stop eating.  The decision by government to permit the turning over of food producing land to the production of ethanol crops is shrinking our ability to grow food (but I realise the strong reasons behind their decision).  Such blocks of land can be "rented out" in the form of sharefarming. 

Perhaps we're to see the return of small business, and smaller markets as the problems of large multinational companies become evident.  As we strive to reduce our carbon footprint, shall we see a reversal of the centralisation of the economy that has taken place, and a return to smaller communities, where food is produced closer to the people that consume it? Will the strongest organisations be the ones where the organisations owner is in control of the business, able to adapt it quickly to changing market conditions, and not inclined to draw salary to the point of destabilising the business. 

And silver.  I keep hearing the push on silver.  Have done for over 12 months now.  I have a client who trades silver.  It seems that a holder of silver long term wouldn't be making that much money.  Good money in trading it as it goes up and down quite regularly, but no steady long term increase in value that you would expect to see given all the solid sounding reasons put forth for investing in silver.  Why? 

who knows, who knows.  Interesting times.  No property boom around the corner, I don't think.  Sure, it might recover a bit and rise steadily, but it is still too dear for another boom.  Gotta find another boom.  Silver?  Agriculture?  Agricultural land?  Small business? 
S

So, when will the US Govt run out of silver?

Then, re the global warming scam:  What is definetley happening now is that the business and government community is reacting to the global warming thing.  Australia's largest carbon emitting businesses will supposedly be regulated with regards their carbon emmissions by July 2010.  The larger community is willing to pay a few extra dollars to offset the carbon on their electricity bill, or their plane fare.  Lowlying coastal land seems unappealing.  So does agricultural land that has been in drought for the last 15 years.  so, will the oceans rise and the country's rain patterns change?  Maybe.  Is the population changing its spending habits now in response to this threat?  Definetly.  That is important to consider.

Funny story about silver.   My client bought a single 1kg silver coin from a Chinese ebay trader.  Imagine his surpise when it arrived and didn't seem to be as heavy as his other 1kg coins.  He weighed it and it was about 700g.  I've seen it.  It even has "1kg" printed on it.  Chinese manufacturing….  Luckily he was able to get a refund for 1/3 of the price and keep the coin. 

Ha.  No, I don't know how it happens overseas, but in Australia, the political system gives the green vote WAY too much power.  Perhaps they should scrap preferences or something, I don't know.  Labor is only in power because of the way they pander to the demands of the greens.  The use of objective research is only too rare when it comes to forming policy.

For me, the jury is out re global warming.  I'm more interested in spending patterns, and the whole global warming thing is changing spending patterns.  As a business person, and an investor, I need to be aware of that.  Doesn't matter what balked the sheep, if there was even anything there at all.  What matters in the sheep balked.  Get me?

BTW, I've read the white paper on australia's proposed carbon scheme, and I'm aware of how it's going to work.  I don't know where you get "buying carbon credits from the world bank".  From what I've read, carbon permits will be issued by the Aust Govt, possibly by auction, and funds received will be directed towards lowering the country's carbon output.  Carbon permits will be tradeable.  Just seems like a good thing to be aware of, really.  Here is a new paperbased asset.  Most of the carbon trading going on in Australia today is unregulated.  This will change.  I've read no mention of Australia having to buy their carbon permits from the world bank.  Perhaps the world bank is carrying on some sort of trading of carbon credits between parties?  Not sure how that will work between different countries, as carbon accounting regulations differ remarkably between countries, meaning that a practices which yields a carbon credit in one country, could yield a carbon debit in another, due to the different accounting practices, and differing validity of various inclusions.
S 

OK, interesting.  I wonder how this overlaps domestic policy.  Does Australia have such an agreement with the World Bank? 

This sounds like a really good idea. When will this start. Lets get things moving.

That is going off on a tangent, lol 

Can you explain in a PM please ? check your inbox.

Basically the same thing happens at any point where executive salary is linked to performance, not only in the fund.   Accounting figures are so manipulated they are hardly worth looking at.  What else can you do though?  If you have to have people who do not own the firm running it, then you have to renumerate them in line with their performance, or they don't have the incentive to keep the firm performing well.  The moment you link their renumeration to their performance they will do what they can to make their performance look better.  It is a vicious circle.  Linking renumeration to share price is little different, they will still sway the numbers to bouy share price.  They may even adopt short term profit / long term non profit practices in order to get the most money in their pocket now, rather than builidng the future wealth of the firm.  I don't know how it can be fixed, but I am sure that fixing this would go a long way to restoring investor confidence.
S

return is based on risk.

If I can get "X" with no risk and no effort, and no stress, what level of return would I except for increased risk and effort.

if you are happy with your expected return for the risk go for it, why I am not hurrying, is because I perceive the market to be falling.

Why pay $1,000,000 for a house I hope to buy for say $800,000 later, at a time much closer to the upturn in the curve,

There is a percetion that you must be out there actively investing, moving from shares to property to precious metals, collectibles
but some beleive there is a time to watch the carnage and have a break before the next cycle.

oh yeah and I do care who called it, …..cause for four years we put up with so much crap about "this time it is different", don't want a pound of fleash but don't take away my fun..

my favourite was the member who asked how to invest in property, build a portfolio, while on centrelink…and she got advice from someone who had done it..  great days indeed..