accountant talking us out of trust

There is no one size fits all for trusts, so it will depend on what investment stratagie you are using as to which trust.

Hybrid trusts are great but only if the people who are advising you are also great. I have seen loans from the trust instead of the person, accounting mistakes are also common for those who think they can do it. If using a Hybrid, also get a good team arround you who know (possibly use) hybrid trusts themselves.

You can control as many trusts as you want, and as many different types as you want. I would probably suggest another trust after the developments as the equity in that trust will be increasing.

Just a side note, if you set up another trust and it is positive, one trust can be a beneficiary of another trust (if the deed allows this) and the +ve trust could distribute some profits to a -ve trust, reducing taxable income.

Hope this helps Anita

CATA
Asset Protection Specialist
[email protected]

Sorry, I know this is off the topic, but I just wanted to make mention that the Dale GatherumGoss’s book is pathetic. I dont know why so many people on here recommend it.
For $99 its a joke. He constantly repeats statements and facts sometimes 3 times in his book. (Its a book <edit>, I can go back pages and re-read it) It is poorly worded, spelling errors and inaccurate. It seriouls y needs to be updated.
I wouldnt recommend this book to anyone. The main point he repeatedly talks about (4-5 times) (claiming deductions in a trust, like birthday present, tea, coffee, sex toys etc) is bordering on tax avoidance (illegal) as opposed to tax minimisation.(depending on your circumstances)

I wouldn’t know Dale GG if I fell over him, however as in introduction to trusts his book is (as I said earlier) a good little read. There might be something in the repetition which makes me think of another author who has pumped out 6 best sellers that all pretty much say the same thing (one Robert Kiyosaki) but then again a monkier like “stuck at two” probably says it all …

Tony

I agree that Dale’s book is worth the money. It is written in a way the average person can easoly understand.

Terryw
Discover Home Loans
Parramatta
[email protected]
Sign up to my mailing list.
Just send me a blank email, with “subscribe” in subject line.

Hi all, this is my first posting to the website and it is going to be controversial [ohno]
I really have to agree with stuck-at-two. I am a property investor and have been an accountant for the past 10 years. I have only been doing tax for the past 2 years (was previously commercial) and am trying to find out more information on different trust setups and the tax implications, just as you all are. So I bought Dale’s book. Well…… I passed it around our tax practice and everyone was horrified. His recommendations really do border on avoidance, and the use of “sex toys” as an example, whether a joke or not, was totally unprofessional. The worst thing about it is he is abusing his position. People who do not know tax take his advise as gospel. Now obviously I am far from an expert, but I would advise anyone who has read this book not to take his advice on board. If you do you may find yourself in a spot of bother if you ever get audited.
Thanks
Lisa

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Dale’s statements with regards to what you can claim as a deduction through a trust are where we have an issue. He is inferring that anyone can claim these items because they have a trust setup, but that is not the case.
I won’t comment on his advice with regards to hybrid trusts because as I previously stated, I am no expert in this field but am trying to learn it myself. But unfortunately, due to the “cowboy” attitude Dale has with regards to deductions, I won’t take anything on board from his book but will seek to confirm those rules and regulations through other means.

mmmm….we could go backwards and forwards here forever couldn’t we. As far as stating legislation goes, it’s basic tax law with regards to deductions, just go and read sec 8-1.

Now, the problem here is you are missing my point, and perhaps that’s my fault because I have not explained myself fully. The issue we have is this:

We get so many clients who give you a spreadsheet or receipts of items they wish to deduct. So, we ask them questions about specifics of the deductions and sometimes you will realise they are trying to claim things that they are not “legally” able to claim. Not because they are trying to scam the system, but because they “read it somewhere”, or “their friend claims it”. The problem with books like Dales is that people who think they are doing the right thing will start claiming their wine they drink for dinner each night because they can just tell the tax man that they bought it for their accountant. Obviously this is just a general example, but the point is, people who do not know the law read these books to learn what they can and cannot do. They are not trained tax professionals and take someone such as Dale’s word as gospel. Therefore, in writing a book such as this one, you really must be careful with your statements, and you must admit that Dale was really out there with regards to saying…..”you can claim this and you can claim that….all because you have a trust setup”.

Gordon, you stated “I think most people of average intelligence would have assumed that some of the deductions listed are possibilities depending on your business and employment circumstances etc”. Thank you for that comment because it totally backs up my argument. When reading these types of books there is no room for assumption. The only assumption that the average joe should make after paying $100 for a book is that the information in there is correct. There must be cold hard facts because unfortunately not everyone will realise that there are other circumstances that need to be factored in, regardless of their intelligence level. Also, a lot of people do not realise that if they get audited and have claimed something they are not legally able to, it is them who will be penalised, NOT their accountant.

Finally, Gordon I take offence to your comment “it makes me wonder about the motives behind her post”. What do you possibly think I could get out of it !!??? I live on the opposite side of the country to Dale so it’s not like I’m trying to steal his clients…….and as I’ve already stated I am not a guru on trusts so it’s not like I’ll be writing a book and competing with him……

I have no motives other than to make people aware. This forum is for people to post their opinions, which I have done. People then choose whether to take it on board or not. End of story.

hi
well finally i got a phone call from my local MP
and not surprisingly, the reply was “You can do it…..but you WILL pay TAX on it”

What sort of fools do people like Micheal Yardney (http://www.propertyupdate.com.au/articles/2/1/The-Tax-Benefits-of-Trust) and Dale Goss think we are???

No Dale…going to the cinema with the family and claiming it through the Trusts is a NO -NO…..
unless your in the film industry and your doing it for a work related expense.
No Dale…buying a CD and claiming it through your Trust is a NO-NO…
unless your in a relevant industry and its a work related expense.

Because if its NOT work related…guess what…TAX is payable.

Why do we have to put up with this crap??????

micheal and dale, before you spout out pie in the sky ideas, it might pay to substantiate those claim.
A good starting point would be the the ATO.
try emailing [email protected]
so that claims like those above are clarified before distributing to the public.

hb

Hi

I am devastated to read the comments in this thread, but, they were brought to my attention by someone who thought they were defamatory….

I am well aware that some people will not understand what is an allowable tax deduction and what is not allowable under the tax law.

The book showed possible tax deductions which are common for many, many businesses.

Does BHP give rewards to its employees in the form of a gift hamper? Does Coles Meyer give small gifts to its employees?

No, not all items are deductible to all people and in all circumstances and I apologise if I have given the impression that they can be.

However, a trust can provide small gifts to its employees (and if we look at the tax law we will see that emmployees are defined very broadly and includes directors) as part of its normal day to day operations under Section 8-1 of the 1997 ITAA.

As fot the hynrid trust comments….I am very hapy to provide a copy of the Private Binding Ruling from the tax office confirming that this is acceptable to the tax office.

Perhaps the person who takes such great umbrage and wishes to speak ill would be wise to act as a professional and do their research properly before making such inflammatory comments.

Or, they may wish to politely ask me why and how and I would have gladly given my time (for free) to explain to them my thoughts and discuss the issues.

Today, it seems is a very sad day in the world when people behave in such a manner. Whatever happened to respect, politeness and courtesy?

Sigh

Dale

I left this forum for a reason and it looks like that reason still holds. Until people like hb & lislym and others who go and defame without proper factual evidence it is a very sad day indeed. I have the utmost pity for your “clients.”

Ram.