I watch the ASIC webpage and I’m amazed how slow they are to react to some events, even the SMH ran a story yesterday on how ASIC thought something was amiss at Westpoint as early as Feb 2004 but they ran into some jursidiction problems and didn’t/couldn’t do much. Likewise there have benn some other stories recently on how they have ignored or failed to act on companies that looked pretty shady from anyview point.
This makes me think about how quick and decisive they were to shut down our friends (unmentionable company name) who were going to change the face of mortgage lending by offering interest free home loans….ASIC jumped on these guys and stopped them in their tracks within days of the news hitting the street…which suggests they had an iron-clad case against them …otherwise they would have sat back an watched for a while to see how it panned out!
Just food for discussion !!!
Whtaever happened to derivex eh
[exhappy]
Originally posted by yack:Whtaever happened to derivex eh
[exhappy]
I doubt anyone knows for sure. You will get plenty of speculation though none of it founded on anything but emotion and wishful thinking.
I don’t even know myself and I was involved for a bit.
Cheers,
Simon Macks
Residential and Commercial Finance Broker
***NODOC @ 7.15% to 70% LVR***
[email protected]
0425 228 985Comments may not be relevant to individual circumstances. If you intend making any investment, financial or taxation decision you should consult a professional adviser.
hi Nat R
until you start to look you are very surprised at the level of the market that is out there that is either above, below or outside the asic arena for me it real unbelievable some times.
a very slight change here or a different way of doing it over there and it out side and once its outside it sailing heaven.
example
lending
house loan( simple structure) if its from a bank its regulated if its non conforming (its higher risk but still regualted to a degree) if you go mezzanine from a trust or fund its can be regulated but could be out side any regulator but if I borrow on one of my properties @7% and lend you to buy your property as a one on one agreement at 15% its unregulated and outside any lend criteria and as its under 18% is ok in wa and this is just a house loan 15% you may who would pay that well once you own it you refinance and pay me out.
you need to get a couple of sharp pens people to have alook at your project and work from there.
three people you don’t upset ato, osr,and asic, and try to work your deals around all three.
like going for goal around the forwards past the midfield around the keeper and into gaol.
sounds easy tell that to any soccer team or in this case anybody that wants to organise what is called fluid pen work.here to help
If you want to get involved in some of the projects I’m involved in email to [email protected]This makes me think about how quick and decisive they were to shut down our friends who were going to change the face of mortgage lending by offering interest free home loans….As I surmised about this time last year, this is probably how it went ;
Step 1 : Pop your “Chairman of a BIG 4 Bank” hat on.
Step 2 : Raise eyebrows when informed about this pipsqueak operation threatening your primary source of massive revenues.
Step 3 : Call the Chairman of the other 3 BIG Banks that morning to arrange urgent crisis meeting.
Step 4 : All sit down with brandy and cigars and wholeheartedly agree this pipsqueak is no good for anyone’s wellbeing. Conclude your combined 1 trillion market cap cannot be compromised.
Step 5 : Have a quiet word in John’s ear. Sternly order him (in the nicest possible way) to act swiftly and discreetly.
Step 6: The order finally trickles down to the head knob of ASIC, who does the rest, swiftly and discreetly. Let the word waffling lawyers tie up the pipsqueak for ever and a day.
Step 7: Arrange to meet at the Club with the other 3 Chairman to congratulate ourselves. Trillion dollar corporate wealth and stability of the country’s banking system restored…..job sorted.
Note : All of the above is pure speculation running around my tiny little suspicious mind and bears not a jot of resemblance to the truth. Things like that simply don’t happen – do they ??
That is certainly what Derivex claimed happened. But in hindsight I don’t know whether it was ever going to fly.
However, I also don’t know the CEO motivation for all the effort he put into it either. He certainly wasn’t trying to get money from the public. Even the application cheques weren’t cashed.
Cheers,
Simon Macks
Residential and Commercial Finance Broker
***NODOC @ 7.15% to 70% LVR***
[email protected]
0425 228 985Comments may not be relevant to individual circumstances. If you intend making any investment, financial or taxation decision you should consult a professional adviser.
Dazzling
I have worked in big end of town banking / finance for 18 years and to be honest things just don’t work like that.
I think you will find that AISC pushed that guy for more information and he flatly refused to give them anything or even respond with sensible answers (I doubt he had anything to give) and they did the right thing and shut him down.
From what I can gather there was a view that the promoters didn’t realise that the concept didn’t work until enough outside people (who could work a HP financial calculator & and understood the concept of future and present value) showed them it was impossible.
Originally posted by Nat R:I think you will find that AISC pushed that guy for more information and he flatly refused to give them anything or even respond with sensible answers (I doubt he had anything to give) and they did the right thing and shut him down.
Nat did you speak to ASIC?
They told me they didn’t shut him down, nor did they even try. They seemed as mystified as the rest of us.
Simon Macks
Residential and Commercial Finance Broker
***NODOC @ 7.15% to 70% LVR***
[email protected]
0425 228 985Comments may not be relevant to individual circumstances. If you intend making any investment, financial or taxation decision you should consult a professional adviser.
You say in your emial about interets free loans. where did you go.
Originally posted by Nat R:I watch the ASIC webpage and I’m amazed how slow they are to react to some events, even the SMH ran a story yesterday on how ASIC thought something was amiss at Westpoint
Just food for discussion !!!Problem with ASIC is they are a public service body. The body has powers but the people doing the work were asleep on their watch with the Westpoint thing, just as they were when HIH was falling apart. I work in the industry that HIH was in and we all “knew” for many years it was bound to happen. When one disaster took over another disaster ie FAI, it was only a matter of time ….
Saw the head honcho of ASIC being interviewed on, I think the 7.30 report , this week about Westpoint and he had NFI of what did/was happening… scary
There were alot of posts about Derivex that talked about ASIC… I tried to bit my tongue, but think I posted something about ASIC being a “toothless tiger, don’t hold your breath.”
regards,
Paul
Originally posted by AmIHotOrNot:You say in your emial about interets free loans. where did you go.
I am having some trouble following the gist of your question here AmIHotOrNot.
Who are you addressing it to and what is your actual question?
If it is me then I am unsure what email you refer to. And I am still here.
Simon Macks
Residential and Commercial Finance Broker
***NODOC @ 7.15% to 70% LVR***
[email protected]
0425 228 985Comments may not be relevant to individual circumstances. If you intend making any investment, financial or taxation decision you should consult a professional adviser.
wonder why people have no faith in the regulators…read in particular the fact that ASIC is still in court with Westpoint arguing if they have the power to investigate the company !!!!
http://www.smh.com.au/news/money/a-lender-be–and-still-sleep-easy/2006/02/24/1140670263179.html
Hi Nat[biggrin]
I fail to see what an article on CDO’s has to do with ASIC, Westpoint or Derivex
Regards
Bryce Inglis
Financial Advisor
[email protected]Replies on this site are intended as general information only, as any specific investment solutions/advice must only be given in accordance with the requirements set out in the Financial Services Reform Act 2001 and the ASIC guidelines as set out in PS146.An appropriate professional should be consulted for specific advice
bugger…wrong link
try this one
http://www.smh.com.au/news/money/into-the-void/2006/02/27/1141007311264.html
Hi All,[biggrin]
ASIC thought something was amiss at Westpoint as early as Feb 2004 but they ran into some jursidiction problems and didn’t/couldn’t do much. Likewise there have benn some other stories recently on how they have ignored or failed to act on companies that looked pretty shady from anyview point.
Nat,
I am puzzled why you have turned into an ASIC basher when during earlier posts on Derivex you enthused about their virtues
As the forums resident bankers advocate and with your level of experience (as you keep reminding us) you should know that ASIC is a Federal body that cannot operate at State level.
ASIC cannot interfere with State legislated direct property issues, and in the case with Westpoint can only act against them if it is proven by the courts that Westpoint operates as a managed property fund which falls under Federal jurisdiction.
This is what ASIC is attempting to do and it is not their fault if Court systems are slow or that errant companies try to delay proceedings further with appeals and challenges. If ASIC are successful with Westpoint in dealing with the current appeal, it will initiate legal action quickly against them.In short it is none of Asics business but they are trying to make it so, and it is not their fault if State legislation is weak in the areas of consumer protection in regards to property, or come to think of it anything else, and it is not their fault that the main lobbyists to the State governments are the Real Estate Institutes, both at State and National levels who want to preserve the status quo.
This makes me think about how quick and decisive they were to shut down our friends
This is a requirement of the ASIC Act, watch what happens to Westpoint once the legal issues preventing ASIC from acting are sorted out.
ASIC jumped on these guys and stopped them in their tracks within days of the news hitting the street
ASIC have proved once again that they respond quickly to all complaints brought to their attention independently of the outcome.
…which suggests they had an iron-clad case against them …
The above suggests nothing of the sort to someone who doesn’t think like a banker.
There is no iron clad case against Derivex, otherwise it would have been brought to a swift conclusion and this stage has not been reached after over 12 months of deliberation.
The time taken is due in part to Derivex being a new product. This is a process which takes ASIC at least 6 months to do its due diligence and to the difficulty caused by their understanding of all possible facets with the semi-academic explanations given to explain its operations.
This matter is further compounded because ASIC were issued with sequntial complaints (all made before the release of Derivex onto the market).The only way you could state that Derivex are shut down is if there has been a ruling that no one knows about and that you are the only one with confidential as yet to be released information to the public
Please I await your reply [exhappy]
Regards
Bryce Inglis
Financial Advisor
[email protected]Replies on this site are intended as general information only, as any specific investment solutions/advice must only be given in accordance with the requirements set out in the Financial Services Reform Act 2001 and the ASIC guidelines as set out in PS146.An appropriate professional should be consulted for specific advice
Whatever…all I know is that Derivex was a joke (an unfunny one at that) and way way too many people on here who claim they know what they are talking about took it hook line and sinker.
Originally posted by Nat R:Whatever…all I know is that Derivex was a joke (an unfunny one at that) and way way too many people on here who claim they know what they are talking about took it hook line and sinker.
C’mon Nat – you can do better than that.
You are just going on the offensive when someone puts you in the hot seat!
We both know ASIC had little to do with Derivex stopping business regardless of what Derivex suggested.
Simon Macks
Residential and Commercial Finance Broker
***NODOC @ 7.15% to 70% LVR***
[email protected]
0425 228 985Comments may not be relevant to individual circumstances. If you intend making any investment, financial or taxation decision you should consult a professional adviser.
Mortageg Hunter….What really sh!ts me is that when this was going down and I was trying hard to warn people about it using maths and other “black magic” stuff that was beyond the comprehension of many of the forumites (you being one of them), I was shot down with bullsh1t comments like “people said man would never walk on the moon” and “there is only use for 4 computers in the world”.
It is beyond belief and/or forgiveness that anyone who works in the industry could say anything positive about the product……the whole experience really opened my eyes to how uneducated, naive and gullible the mortage broking community actually is.
I should be thankful…its not every day that I get such a good insight into the thinking of the man on the street.
Regards
NatalieForgive me Nat – it is uncharitable in the extreme for me to take any pleasure in you being on the receiving end.
An education in what others experience is quite true.
All the best
Simon Macks
Residential and Commercial Finance Broker
***NODOC @ 7.15% to 70% LVR***
[email protected]
0425 228 985Comments may not be relevant to individual circumstances. If you intend making any investment, financial or taxation decision you should consult a professional adviser.
the whole experience really opened my eyes to how uneducated, naive and gullible the mortage broking community actually is.As a mortgage broker, I take offence to this Nat. I too openly disbelieved what they had to offer but that doesn’t necessarily make me smarter than the next guy. Generalisations don’t do anyone any favours.
Cheers
Stu
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. If you don't have an account, you can register here.
