All Topics / Overseas Deals / US investing. Ethical considerations

Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)
  • Profile photo of markdangerousmarkdangerous
    Member
    @markdangerous
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 13

    Hi All,
    This post is probably going to antagonise certain members of this board. I dont care this needs to be said so that whether or not people heed it, they at least know.

    I dont know if anyone else caught the documentary on SBS on Monday night 6th Feb 2006 on Race in the United States. I’ve known for along time that the US has major problems with Race and Racism. I’ve heard the term ‘institutionalised racism” plenty of times but i’ve never really understood it until that documentary laid it all out to bare. I feel impelled to post the following info.

    For this i need to set the historical context.
    The years immediately after WWII saw two major developments in property in the US. First was the GI bill which gave returned soldiers access to cheap mortgages, and suburbanisation. In large cities there was a major shortage of housing stock and this lead to a boom in suburban developments. The suburban developments were exclusively for whites. African Americans who wanted to purchase suburban homes were not allowed into most developments. This is a matter of historical record. I’m not making this up. Its all very complicated but it basically came down to this. The FHA gave a risk rating to every neighbourhood in the USA. Neighbourhoods which were “white” got a better risk rating, which meant mortgages were FAR easier to obtain than in riskier neighbourhoods. Big deal you say. Well the problem is that this risk ratings were largely based on racial profiles. And predominantly African American neighbourhoods were higher risks, meaning mortgages for those areas were harder to get and more expensive. This has the obvious economic effect of weakening demand in those neighbourhoods and therefore the capital appreciation was much much less.

    Then in 1967 a Bill was passed making discrimination in housing illegial. This had the effect of large numbers of African Americans moving into predominantly ‘white’ neighbourhoods. This led to “white flight” where whites left, prices went down, and left those who moved in with houses which were now valued less than what they had paid for them.

    So in summary I’m going to over simplify the situation for illustration puposes.
    1947 onwards: White people moved to the cheap new suburbs.
    African Americans who wanted to couldn’t.
    Suburbs became a perverse white ‘utopia’. The capital valuations have increased steadily since then.
    African Americans stayed in the inner city neighbourhoods because the system was stacked against them. The capital appreciations in those areas are far far less than the suburbs.
    From 1967 onwards when African Americans could begin to move to suburbs, the suburbs they did move to became less desirable and therefore less valuable and the capital appreciations have been historically far less. The perversity of this situation is sickening.

    Why is this relevant to this discussion forum?
    Well many Aussies are going over to the US to invest. Some have been investing in the inner city neighbourhoods where the prices are really low. These low prices are strongly correlated to race, and the historical institutionalised rasicm of the United States. When making these kinds of investing decisions, for those of us who do take ethical considerations into account, this is something to consider. Do you want to profit from this kind of historical injustice?

    I’m not making any judgements about anybody on this forum. I am sharing my knew found understanding for those fairminded folks who care to considerate it.

    Profile photo of Brisbane 04Brisbane 04
    Participant
    @brisbane-04
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 215

    Hi Mark,
    Wot the? I invest in the States because of the returns. I have 3 properties in Buffalo. I have no idea who they are rented to but at $150 per week I feel thats pretty cheap for a 3 bedroom place that has been rehabbed. I dont know the people who are living there (race, religion or creed) my main concern is that they pay there. I am providing housing to those who choose not or cant afford housing at this point in their life, so I find your comments a lot of tripe.

    There are 3 types of people:1. People who make things happen.
    2. People who watch what happens.
    3. People who wondered what happened.

    Profile photo of hbhb
    Member
    @hb
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 179

    markdangerous

    you have undeniably hit a nerve with Brisbane 04

    what you misapprehend, is that the whole point of this forum is stimulate prosperity, no matter what the sacrifice.

    Go Brisbane 04, trample humanity, impede human rights, and proliferate in capitalism at the disbursement of mankind

    in simple terms
    04…your a wit
    mark…your wasting your time

    Profile photo of markdangerousmarkdangerous
    Member
    @markdangerous
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 13
    Originally posted by hb:

    markdangerous

    you have undeniably hit a nerve with Brisbane 04

    what you misapprehend, is that the whole point of this forum is stimulate prosperity, no matter what the sacrifice.

    Go Brisbane 04, trample humanity, impede human rights, and proliferate in capitalism at the disbursement of mankind

    in simple terms
    04…your a wit
    mark…your wasting your time

    Thanks HB – sort of. I posted this because i wanted to make people think. I knew some wouldn’t like it. Each to their own.
    I don’t believe I am wasting my time. I think there are many thinking people who will take my point…but they won’t have any reason to post a reply because the issue isn’t personal like it is for Brisbane 04.
    Brisbane 04 – for the record, I’m all for supplying people with housing and I respect that different people have different value judgements. Personally, its is very important to me that what i do is principled and the ethics of my actions are well thought out. My post is solely for the purpose of supplying others like me food for thought. And i’m not for a minute suggesting you aren’t and you don’t.

    Profile photo of bardon_2bardon_2
    Participant
    @bardon_2
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 74

    Mark,

    I seen that show and have lived in the Us and am fully aware of the historically segregated nature of a lot of city neighborhoods.

    As far as ethics are concerned you will find that most community groups are pro foreign investment in the area. The city officials, housing action groups and local business support foreign and out of town investment as this is what is needed to correct the years of disinvestment.

    It is now a free market and there should be no ethical question raised when investment is used to rehab properties and provide quality shelter for tenants in fact you could say it was more ethical to invest in these areas than affluent white suburbs. Slum lords are another story and there are plenty of them but I don’t think the ozzies fall into that category.

    Lots of afro Americans are also now investing in property and some say that the afro Americans will be the next wave of Americans to attain home ownership and financial prosperity.

    Profile photo of hbhb
    Member
    @hb
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 179

    bardon

    “The city officials, housing action groups and local business support foreign and out of town investment as this is what is needed to correct the years of disinvestment.”

    Admirable analysis of a country with anomalous priorities

    performing its super power contest

    USA invests $400 Billion dollars in Military expenditures (Australias total GDP $800billion)

    Performing its social responsibility,

    a homeless veteran,
    “In FY 2006, the funding of $22 million, will improve the Homeless Veterans’ Reintegration Program (HVRP) through capacity building and increased retention efforts. VETS will support efforts on behalf of incarcerated veterans. This level of funding will help 10,600 homeless veterans find jobs.”
    $2,000 per veteran

    So that’s all its worth to fight for country and flag
    And then rely on “out of towner’s to correct the years of disinvestment”

    Detect the incongruity

    Profile photo of bardon_2bardon_2
    Participant
    @bardon_2
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 74

    To hard for me now its went from ethical investment to political criticism of treatment of veterans. On a hiding to nothing here I think ,next it will be how could you invest in a country run by George Wya and all. If you really want to sound off about racism and politics then you might just have a think about Australia’s record on institutionalized racism and treatment of ex-serviceman.

    Profile photo of kiwiduvetkiwiduvet
    Member
    @kiwiduvet
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 92

    got to agree with Bardons original post & brisbane 04 the clear facts are that if you have been to buffalo and looked at houses in the high yielding areas that are not the slums you will find massive racial diversity, I think it is socially positive to provide investment into properties that need upgrading or a satisfactory level of comfort maintained this would not be done in Buffalo without inward investment due to the skewed lower average incomes and higher unemployment than exist in other cities, I would have thought that upper middle class gated communities contribute to far greater racial divisions than the type of rental accommodation that we are providing.

    A lot of these people renting need a decent comfort in accommodation and they will probably never ever own their own homes, which is sad but at least they can rent with the assistance of welfare from the state, I see it as a economic and social win/win

    I won’t go into preforeclosures

    As regards politics last time I checked this was a property investment forum, and should be directly related to that subject. i dont think there are enough hours in the day to debate the ethics of world politics as there arent any ethics

    when the going gets weird the weird turn pro

    Profile photo of MillyMilly
    Member
    @milly
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 288

    I think we should all go invest in those inner city places that MD talks about TODAY!. We will increase demand, push the prices up and thus improve the value of the area. Of course then we can put the rents up and those undesirable ‘riskier’ low socio-economic tennants will be forced out.

    What I am more interested in is: Are these cheap parts of inner cities going to stay that way? Demand for inner city property in Aust is very high. Perhaps these areas will see a turnaround as others see the value of city living.

    As far as my own investing goes, I dont give a rats about the history here. There are any number of human rights issues we could take up with USA, Im not about to single this one out to the detriment of my own ambitions. These people need somewhere to live and they wont find a fairer landlady than me . [thumbsup2][thumbsup2]

Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic. If you don't have an account, you can register here.