I wish to rent out my free standing 1950’s cottage. A couple with good references have made an offer but :
Concern 1. They have two dogs, what should I incorporate as special conditions in the rental contract?
Concern 2. Does anyone know if I have any legal concerns regarding the dogs? My property has a fence on two sides only? The DFT (Dpt of Fair Trading) and the Attorney General’s Office (the Law Access line) reckon it’s the tenants problem usually. They say if the dogs do damage to someone else’s property or person it would be the dog owner’s responsibility (and negligence). They say that the tenant is responsible for ensuring that their dog(s) are suitably kept. DFT and Law Access both couldn’t envisage a situation where I (the landlord) could be imputed but couldn’t exclude the possibility either?
PS. The neighbour without the boundary fence doesn’t really want a fence, even with the dogs, of course he would prefer that my tenants don’t have dogs!
skatzAre they big dogs that wreck everything. If the house is in an area where rental demand is good, I’d say find another tenant. You dont need that niggling worry in the back of your mind. Also if you rang the DFT and Attorney General again and spoke to someone else you’d probably get another response.
But if you do let to these tenants make sure the stipulations in the lease are clear and concise and everyone knows where they stand.
I have two properties with fantastic tenants who have a dog each and what I find when assessing whether to accept a dog is to have my property manager inspect where they live presently and if that inspection looks good she then proceeds to accept there application on condition that they pay a dog bond which is normally one weeks worth of rent and they get this back upon final inspection.
I hope this helpsTrish Clark
gees I can’t believe that people with dogs dont want to find a home WITH a fence. I woulda thought it was a priority, dogs or little kids….ya gotta have a fence. I spose with no fence they will go crap in the neighbours yard so I guess that’s a bonus. But you’d think that it might worry them that rover might get squished on the road.
Anyway I rekkon give these tennants a miss. You may say that the dogs are the tennants legal responsibility but it won’t stop neighbours complaining to the agent when there is a problem.
Good luck
millyHi skatz,
I would defininetly be seeking some sort of legal advice re: the dogs. By that I mean under council law, dogs must be registered (and in some cases micro chipped) to an owner’s name. If one of the dogs bite’s someone (and again, I’m only second guessing), I’d hate to see the ‘owner’ of the property left being liable if proof of dog ownership is left up in the air. Big dogs generally need lots of exercise (I’ve got 2 of them) or a big ‘fenced’ yard to keep them in. However if they are lap dogs the size of ‘navel flint’ and the rent’s a great return, it may be a great deal if you can skillfully negotiate with them and (and possibly the neighbours?) and have it put in writing it could be great tennants?
Best of luck,
Gatsby.“Sometimes the hardest thing to do in life is often the best thing to do.”
OK, so now I’m starting to worry. We have tenants with two dogs and only three sides of the yard are fenced. Dogs are kept on a tether – no problem. Landlords insurance covers any major damage that may (or may not) occur – no problem.
It has been my assumption that the dogs are registered to the owners and that the owners of the dogs are legally responsible for their dogs. One of the dogs is a bit on the bad natured side though [vangry] and took a snap at me.
I’m not going to slip into full tilt paranoia here but you’ve got me thinking.
Interesting thread. Guess it comes back to the fact that we’d better look into setting up some sort of decent asset protection.
Sonja
[blush2]Thank you every one for the replies,
my response 2 your queries and comments:g7: One’s a small (Jack Russel) and a medium (wippet),
they appeared to be placid, friendly and well behaved.
Yes, you do wonder if someone else at DFT would give the same answer.
The thing is that there is an obvious niche for rental house that allows dogs. You can ask,
straight up, for 10% extra if they want to keep a dog, so, is the 10% worth it?TrishClark: A dog bond! poetry! I presume that this is a bond you incorporate as a
special condition in the Rental Agreement Contract.
Inspecting where they live presently is a good idea except that they are currently swapping
cities, if(mmm?) you could trust what one of their references said they keep an immaculate house.Milly: You pretty well summed up my initial thoughts on the matter. Is the extra 10% rent worthwhile?
Gatsby : Hadn’t thought of the proof of ownership aspect, puts another aspect to the question.
I know they need lots of exercise, the owners reckon they take them for long walks most days.Sonja : Yep. First I thought, well what is the worst that a Jack Russel or Wippet could do,
savage your ankle, but in fact I then rembered that the neighbours had 2 year olds. mmmm.All interesting stuff thank you folks. I’ll have to follow up further on a few things then.
i’ll let you know what eventuates.skatz
Skatz,
Why not negotiate with your proposed tenants to have a fence installed, with an appropriate increase in the rent. You have then increased the return on your investment to pay for an improvement that will be of lasting benifit to the property. Your neighbour will appreciate the fence, especially when you tell him that this will prevent all his vegies being dug up, and he should be required to go halves with you (normal council regs. where I live!).R
Harley
Dont get me started on dogs. Gave permission for tenant to have a puppy which grew very fast into a rotweiller and then had 8 puppies very fast. He took about 3 months to get rid of puppies except kept one which grew very fast into another big dog = 2 dogs. Only small yard, never walked them, dogs bored brainless so they charge the fence and bark at everything that moves, when I suggested he could walk the dogs he started doing that, two big dogs around the clothline 3 times. Smell of dog faeces in yard in summer disgusting. Dogs so bored they started getting out whereby he was thumping the fence and screaming and yelling at me that it was my fault. Fence was a very strong temporary fence as we had built a new townhouse in the backyard and are going to knock down their rented house and build another townhouse. He threatened me with the tribunal and everything under the sun. Every time the dogs got out the council caught them because they were microchipped but he screamed at me that it was my fault and with the tribunal the way it was I envisaged having to pay all the council fines. I finally wrote to the property manager and said they always dig out under the fence, had NEVER got through the fence. She said they would get him into the office and explain a few things to him, – such as he rented the house with the fence the way it was, the dogs are his responsibility and they are only paying incredibly cheap rent etc. They are leaving in two weeks and I am bulldozing the house next day, cant wait.
Fern
Can’t say I have ever heard of placid Jack Russell or a placid whippet!!!
Really like the idea of a dog bond. As a dog owner and previous renter, would have supported that concept.
Having trouble though of the concept of renting with dogs without a fenced backyard. That means either the dogs are housebound or are tied up. As a rental, housebound dogs will cause more wear and tear than would normally occur so carpets and floors will attract some additional attention. Both dogs are short haired but will still moult so have some hair as well. Damage caused by bored or destructive pets is only determined by each case.
As for tied up, unfortunately you have to judge if you want a tenant who would tie up an animal all day everyday while they are at work.
Ultimately, I wouldn’t have a problem with it as long as the property can accomodate animals. In this case, I would probably say no it cant.
Response 2:
Harley2 : I had same idea but thought upping rent for dogs would be top rent I would get,
but the fence plus perhaps a longer contract period is worth considering.Harley2 : “Smell of dog faeces in yard in summer disgusting.” NOT GOOD!
If the contract limits them to two dogs, no pups, and the dogs are small, I wonder how much
aggrevation, risk and trouble that equals.jhopper : If only you could do a dry run with a crystal ball. The house has pollished floor
boards, I’m wondering how much damage dog’s can do. Dog smell, fur, fleas, poop in the gardenskatz
Hi Skatz,
If you are still thinking about these people as a tennant you could suggest a radio collar dog fence to them as part of the contract. The dog wears a collar and there’s a wire fence that runs around the perimeter you want to keep them inside. As the dog gets closer to the fence it emmits a noise and eventually gives the dog a zap if it doesn’t stop. There are a few different models on the market, the one I am familiar with can be found on http://www.sureguard.com.au
This could solve your problem at no cost to you, and no intusion for your neighbours.
Cheers EllyHi EllyH
There could be an issue with Prevention of Cruelty to Animal Act NSW (checking now)
otherwise the Radio Collar Dog Fence sounds better than a fence (plenty of dogs jump 1
metre high fences anyway, or dig under)
thanks
skatzskatz
What state is all this happening in, a Pet Bond in WA of $100 is fairly standard if a dog or even a cat is agreed upon. (I wouldn’t bother about it for a Cat), but I’m just wondering what the go is in other states as everyone seems surprised to hear of Bond for animals.
I know here this is a maximum to what can be charged, so do check that out with your relevant tenancy advice people.
Regards
PKEllyH: I spoke to “Sureguard”, the designer of the product informed me that NSW legislation
states that the device (*) may be used inside a fence through which animals cannot pass and
that it is not less than 1.5 metres high.” Kinda makes the “device” superfluious extra!
* I believe the device referred to is any “shocking” device including the radio collar or
ping string discussed here. Farmers in NSW use it, keeps out grizzly bears in Canada.
In case others are interested, a radio collar emits an increasing noise as the dog (or cat)
approaches a boundary wire (the wire is above or below the ground), finally it gives
a small electric shock if the dog if it gets very close to the wire. The animal quickly
learns where the boundary is and doesn’t get near it (1 meter). Ping string = down tuned
cattle electric fence.
I’m told both are less than the static electric shock you get off the car and if the animal
can jump/climb or dig under a 1.5M fence it is less likely to cross the wire.
Cheap and effective but a legal hitch for us in NSW.PurpleKiss: Will have to check with DFT if there is a Pet Bond maximum.[blush2]
skatz
Hi Skatz,
we use a device made (or imported by) Innotek (http://www.innotek.com.au/).
We have two Rotties and are very happy with the product (SD2100 – Smart Dog 2100) as it is water proof and can be left on the dogs 24/7, even when washing them. It isn’t cheap, but it is supported by the RSPCA (well it was when I bought it) as it is a non-violent dog/cat restraint.
Even our postie likes it (can you immagine having two full grown Rotties charging at you when delivering mail! Would be an impressive sight). The wire (and there is only one) can be burried underground (or use a spade and make an insision in the ground and just push the wire into it).
And yes, it is like a shock you get from your car (depending on your setting – it might be a tad bit stronger). Unfortunately I can vouch for that from personal eperience [blush2]. Lets call it troubleshooting and solving the issue by accident while holding the collar in one hand! [grrr]. Hehehe, kinda funny when I think of it; I laughed at the puppy as it got a zap and ran with a mighty yelp to the back yard! What goes around comes around, hehehehe.BTW – I bought mine on ebay and saved $100 (minus the cost of a new power supply).[grad]
Cheers
C@34Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is to always try something one more time.
– Thomas EdisonHi calvin@thirty4, Your dog device sounds identical to the one I looked into, sounds like NSW LEGISLATION has changed since you bought yours. The problem here is that a tenancy agreement is likely invalid if contrary to STATE legislation. It sounds like an excellent device to me.
skatz
Hi Skatz,
give them a call, they have an 1800 number on their website. Perhaps they can asist in regards to the Legislation. If they want the business let them work for it! If other states follow NSW then pretty soon they wont have a market in Australia, so it is in thier interest too.OR they will tell you that their product complies with Legislation – after all it si RSPCA endorsed (or it was).
I thought it might be worth a try!
Cheers
C@34Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is to always try something one more time.
– Thomas Edison
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