Hi Kenneth,
The data I used isn’t very scietific. Mainly from contacts I have and the also the commen rental database that all agents use. You can find links to search at http://singaporeexpats.com. Most agents have access and they generally cover all listed apartments that are listed by agents. Straits Times is good for rpivately listed apartments.
Our search was confined to the East Coast, Tanjong Rhu area. Costa Rhu, pebble Bay, Waterside, casurina Cove etc. I’ve always stayed in this area and have a fair indication of what the market is paying.
The off-the-plan specs are risky if you ask me. While I agree some places like the Sail and Sentosa Cove have seen paper increases, you need to keep in mind that these are multi-million dollar properties. I think the average price for Sentosa Cove is in the 5 million mark. That sort of price range is out of my league so while it’s possible for some, it’s not for me.
Dear Baloo,
Thank you for sharing your experiences with us in this forum.
I am also looking forward to hearing/learning from Meilin08’s differing views too.
Thank you.
regards,
Kenneth KOHFundementals. For Singapore I look for what expats are looking for. Good sized rooms, nice facilities, good transport and above all, ensuring no construction to happen in the near future. There is nothing an expat hates more than being woken up to pile driving at 7am on a Sunday morning.
I’d also look at good sized older apartments that will turn around nicely with a reno. New kitchen, bathroom and fittings will make it very appealing to an expat family. It generally needs to feel nice. I’m sorry I am vague but it’s hard to quantify. Buildings age quickly in Singapore’s humidity so you need to mind a body corporate that make an effort to upkeep the complex.
CF+. My goal is to find a place that will require minimum outlay for me. This would include BC fees which can be quite high. I am looking for a gross return of 9% or more.
A friend recently sold a 3+1 in Pebble Bay. He sold it for 1.6 Million yet rental income if 6.5k per month. This is an example of a property I wouldn’t buy despite being a well located and looked after complex.
Also, to add, not being a PR, I can only limit my research to Condos and a few landed properties due to the governments restrictions on propertry purchase for foreigners.
Dear Baloo,
Thank you for further sharing your thoughts and experiences with us.
I am much indebted for your education.
Thank you.
regards,
Kenneth KOHHi all,
The average price at Sentosa Cove is not 5 million – that’s for the houses – not for condos. The average price for the condo we bought into on Sentosa is 1.5mil.
The Azure – a new condo opposite the Berth on Sentosa- was launched last week. All sold in a few days. Avg price around 1.8mil.
Alot of foreigners investing in the Sentosa Cove Development.
Ken – Saw the article today in the paper. I know of investors making huge money on their onsales at condos on sentosa and the sail at marina bay. Not sure about 50% though.
See ya, Mei
Originally posted by meilin08:[quote
Alot of foreigners investing in the Sentosa Cove Development.
Ken – Saw the article today in the paper. I know of investors making huge money on their onsales at condos on sentosa and the sail at marina bay. Not sure about 50% though.
See ya, Mei
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Dear Mei,1. Congratulations and good for you and your associates on your successful property investing in Singapore.
2. The report says the vendors are asking 50% more than what they have paid for and then went on to implicitly “doubt” if they would get it.
3. The transactions are still not done yet, as far as I understand from the said report, though I do not rule out the possibility of some real transactions having actually taken place in reality.
4. There was also some article in Taipei Times newspapers reporting about this too. The same report went on to add that the interests are basically from overseas investors from the Arab oil monies and investors from the Chinese Mainland China.
5. So to me and from my research and market monitoring, this is merely an initial speculative play at the high end of the Singapore property market among the developers and their associates as well as a select group of new “specu-investors” clients like your goodself, who are in effect, trying to talk up the property market in Singapore, to trigger off its eventual boom.
6. The URA is reportedly investigating into this present property market speculation trend, in partcular, the level and legality of the unit on-sales as well as the number of cases of direct subsales by the local developers.
7. Presently, I honestly believe that the real market sentiments, underlying the Singapore property market, are still presently “weak” at the grassroot level, due to the present (and continued) oversupply of condo units (over the next few years!).
8. As far as the mass market is concerned, the flash estimate for the HDB resale index for third quarter of 2005, is still dropping down to 101.2, some 26% below its last market peak price level achieved during late 1996-early 1997 period.
9. Personally, thus, I still seriously doubt there is indeed any initial sign for a real property boom taking place within the Singapore property market itself, at this point in time, saved for this high end property market speculation phenomenon, which is presently being reported ( for a certain purpose, I believe).
10. I think people like Baloo can agree with me on that too.
11. Like IMAC, I still find it “too risky” for myself, to be able to safely invest into the Singapore property market at this point in time, even though I am presently and seriously contemplating to.
12. Perhaps, you can try to convince me (and the other investors with similar inclinations too) otherwise?
13. For your kind update, please.
14. Thank you.
regards,
Kenneth KOHHi Brady5,
1. What’s your present views and take on this subject? Care to share with us openly in this forum?
2. Thanks.
regards,
Kenneth KOHThanks to KenKoh2000 & meilin08 for their insights.
I don’t have much to say except that I was listening to one of the most famous RE apartment sellers in the World, Donald Trump, when he said something that I could relate back here.
He basically said that luxury apartments are a specialised market that can have very high growth rates. Supply of Luxury housing in general is one of the most important things that can effect the price (although buildings that are seen as ultra luxury/exclusive do tend to get higher prices (even if they are similar to other high end buildings – thats why Donald Trump does alot of publicity, his luxury buildings sell for higher than other luxury buildings of the same standard because of the Trump brand)). High prices tend to come in waves. Right now he’s seeing Arabs from the Middle East (apparently Saudi made $165Bn this yr). Before that, was wealthy Chinese, then rich Americans (tech boom) then wealthy Russians (not too many) and wealthy Asians.
Because it is a specialised market prices tend to be different than regular apartments/houses. And during booms prices can jump massively but during the down times luxury apartments tend to just sit empty with no buyers and few renters. Many of the people who buy them however don’t really care that much. Many of them have a cashcow (either CEO job or other assets (companies, etc)) and so it’s all about stashing their wealth some where they are going to get high CG. As CEOs and biz owners tend to make millions and while their is easy money (which has to do with credit as well as investor attitudes) these apartments tend to rise in price (in some ways based on the theory of the greater fool). One of Trumps big buyers at this moment (in terms of volume of sales) is buying apartments all cash because he sold his biz for something like $120M. When it’s money like that rational can go out the window to a large degree.
Hellman
Originally posted by hellman:Thanks to KenKoh2000 & meilin08 for their insights.
I don’t have much to say except that I was listening to one of the most famous RE apartment sellers in the World, Donald Trump, when he said something that I could relate back here.
He basically said that luxury apartments are a specialised market that can have very high growth rates. Supply of Luxury housing in general is one of the most important things that can effect the price (although buildings that are seen as ultra luxury/exclusive do tend to get higher prices (even if they are similar to other high end buildings – thats why Donald Trump does alot of publicity, his luxury buildings sell for higher than other luxury buildings of the same standard because of the Trump brand)). High prices tend to come in waves. Right now he’s seeing Arabs from the Middle East (apparently Saudi made $165Bn this yr). Before that, was wealthy Chinese, then rich Americans (tech boom) then wealthy Russians (not too many) and wealthy Asians.
Because it is a specialised market prices tend to be different than regular apartments/houses. And during booms prices can jump massively but during the down times luxury apartments tend to just sit empty with no buyers and few renters. Many of the people who buy them however don’t really care that much. Many of them have a cashcow (either CEO job or other assets (companies, etc)) and so it’s all about stashing their wealth some where they are going to get high CG. As CEOs and biz owners tend to make millions and while their is easy money (which has to do with credit as well as investor attitudes) these apartments tend to rise in price (in some ways based on the theory of the greater fool). One of Trumps big buyers at this moment (in terms of volume of sales) is buying apartments all cash because he sold his biz for something like $120M. When it’s money like that rational can go out the window to a large degree.
Hellman
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Dear Hellman,1. Thanks for sharing with us, what Donald Trump has said regarding investing in prestige properties sectors.
2. I agree with Donald that the prestige property marekt segment is a highly specialised and niche market segment, which varies greatly from the mass market sector.
3. The operating environment and rules of games for property investing are quite different indeed. I believe that these include the following:
a. very small and limited market segment and resale market.
b. high pricings which serves as a sort of exclusiveness and barrier to limit on;u a small number of exclusive players capable of investing/trading into this market segment.
c. players do have other sources of high incomes.
d. the main emphasis among the players are social prestige and wealth preservation and security, rather than capital growth is the rule of the game.
e. lower leverage used by the players to finance their property purchases.
f. property trading activities tends to boom/bust in conjunction with/conincides with the traditional business cycle/economic booms and busts.
g. prestige properties being regarded generally as a social prestige symbols for high nett worth individuals to openly display off their financial wealth, the scarcer, and more exclusive the prestige properties, the more socially desirable they are to the players and thus the higher the price which they are able to command in the exclusive but limite prestige property market segment.
h. Personal building branding create premium to pricing of prestige properties.
i. Scarcity of properties in itself, is not sufficient condition for it ot be automatically translated into a higher prices, all things being equal.
j. Neither do normal demand for properties in itself per se, automatically translates itself into higher prices, all thing being equal.
k. Effective market demand = existing competition in demand and different level of prices being offered for a particular properties by the competing buyers.
l. inefficient market information and pricing ofter prevails in such exclusive market segment.
m. Boom and Bust scenarios often happens in this market segment, rather than a soft landing at the end of each property cycle if there is one indeed.
n. the lesser the number of unit resale, the more socially desirable and hence the higher the reseale price for the unit, other things being equal.
4. I have read about/seen such kind of play in real life operations in the Goldcoast property market previously.
5. In the early 1970s, it was mainly the Japanese investors, in the 1980s, it was mainly the Taiwanese investors, in the 1990s it was mainly the ASEAN Asian investors etc.
6. I think the next wave of investors is likely to come from the wealthy investors from Mainland China or from Arab OPEC countries.
7. For your further discussion and comments, please.
8. Thank you.
regards,
Kenneth KOHHi Mei,
my two cents worth:
-Don’t bank on analyst predictions, unless speculation is your strategy.
-If you need 30% to 40% deposit then your leverage is low so you’re going to need an outstanding return to make it worthwhile.Consider the opportunity cost. ie you can get into a deal with 10% of purchase price any day in Oz (5% deposit plus 5% for costs). Even on an ordinary 5% rental yield you might still do better locally.
I hope you can speak the language hard enough to invest in areas that you know like the back of your hand let alone somewere
Monopoly, my favourite game
Hi Ken,
You say…
“””I still find it “too risky” for myself, to be able to safely invest into the Singapore property market at this point in time, even though I am presently and seriously contemplating to.”””
???
Where are you contemplating?
Also Rikky, language is not a problem here – nearly everyone speaks English – or ‘Singlish’ as it is referred to locally.[biggrin]
See ya, Mei
Dear meilin,
a semiD landed property either in Katong or Changi area.
Cheers,
Kenneth KOHHi All,
Great to see all the good posts about Singapore.I still think the market is too risky for my type of shopping. Maybe the BIG end of town will do ok in the long term. Did anyone buy into Costa Del Sol a few years back. On the East Coast near Bayshore?? The place is only 50% inhabited (about 400 units all up)and when I went there last year to look at renting the owner investor nearly begged me to rent it from him. Scarey stuff. Vacany of these condos seems to be wide spread. The housing allowance is just not forthcoming from the companies anymore.
And my personal thoughts….. Two words might scare the pants off any property investor in the next few months. (BIG end excluded).
BIRD FLU !!!!!
All the best. Imac.[blink]
Looking to go Positive
Quote:Originally posted by IMAC:And my personal thoughts….. Two words might scare the pants off any property investor in the next few months. (BIG end excluded).
BIRD FLU !!!!!
All the best. Imac.[blink]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dear IMAC,1. Why?
2. Are you starting to feel terrified by it now yourself as an Singapore-based expatriate?
3. Why not the threat of dengue fever when some 14 people have reportedly died of dengue fever in Singapore so far and areas like Changi is also known to be one of usual affected areas and where there are reports where local coffee-shop owners even close down their business and temproarily relocate themselves out of the infected area?
4. Looking forward to learning from you soon, please.
5. Thank you.
Cheers,
Kenneth KOHHey Ken,
Did you see the article in yesterday’s business Times?
Sentosa Cove land up 65%. Those who bought their land at 3mill will be laughing – now worth 5mill.
Mei
I think those that could afford a speculative 3 million dollar investment in the first place already had plenty of reasons to be happy.
The top end of the property market is a different game to the other property markets. Big winners and big losers, not too much in between.
Hi all,
I’m a Singaporean living in Sydney.
I have 2 properties here but am interested to know the prospects of investing in property in Singapore.
From what I have read, it seems tricky to invest in Singapore property. HDB (government-subsidised flats) are tightly regulated and private (landed) properties are very expensive. What about Condos? Do they need high maintenance?
I have never bought a flat in Singapore and don’t know how to go about it. My parent-in-laws are keen to help us get a property there but I would like to convince them buying here would be a better option (joint venture)
Any thoughts would be great!
Hi Lawry73,
Since you are Singaporean I assume you would have some CPF here?
The govt has recently changed the deposit structure from 20% down to 10%. And of this 10% you can use 5% from your CPF and 5% cash.
Unfortunately we bought our condo before this change so we had to fork out $300k instead of $150K
as the deposit.We are PR’s here and have in the past bought a HDB flat – being a Singaporean I should think there would be no problems buying one. The government (unless this has changed) also has a scheme if you buy a HDB flat within a certain radius of your elderly parents – they will give you a $40,000 grant. May be worth looking into if your parents/inlaws live here.
Being a Singaporean you can also buy New HDB flats. As PR’s we are only allowed to buy on the open market. My cousin lives in Perth – she is Singaporean. She bought a new HDB flat in Hougang in 2001 for $195,000. Currently worth $500,000.
This may be the way to go.
Hope this helps.
Mei
Thanks Mei.
I have never actually worked in Singapore so there isn’t CPF to use.
I suppose I can buy a new HDB but the rule is that I cannot rent it out within X years of purchase.
My in Laws are PRs (Aussie citizens) so I’m not sure if the radius requirement to get a grant applies here.
It seems like the HDB price growth is tightly regulated by the government, if this so, then price growth will be limited.
I would prefer Condos but rental markets seems weak. A landed property would be out of the question.
Any comments?
Appreciated.
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