All Topics / Help Needed! / help….!!!
my partner and I are currently in the middle of trying to purchase a 2nd investment property but it’s all gone pear-shaped!
a bit of background…
we currently have one PPOR and one IP
IP valued at 285,000 owing 185,000
PPOR valued at 215,00 owing 225,000 (the bank did a valuation and the valuation came back way lower than expected, because we are in the beginnings/yucky stage of renovating it)
trying to purchase house valued at 65,000 at a purchase price of 64,000
the bank, after 2 and a half weeks (!), have come back and said that the 2nd propoerty (our PPOR) is unacceptable security and the mortgage insurers won’t touch the deal!!
we are devastated, we really want this 2nd IP but the banks will not give us a chance.
does anyone have any advice?[confused2]
pasandbec
Finance is now a commodity for the investing consumer, you might want to talk to some of the very capable brokers on the forum to get the deal over the line.
Good Luck…G7
I should have also mentioned that we want to borrow 100% plus costs plus extra $$ to do renovations on our PPOR and the (new) IP…..
Partner earns $55,000 pa, I earn $34,000
No credit cards or major debt (apart from the properties)
I am assuming you are not using a mortgage broker. If this is the case I suggest you find a good one (good ones are on this forum). Terryw is quite good, as well as Stuart Wemyss and Simon Macks.
This is why I use Mortgage brokers, they have all your details and if you are declined by one lender they can resubmit to other lenders (alot of the time the bank that has declined you will probably notmark your CRA), while people who don’t use mortgage brokers can waste a large amount of time submiting and re-submiting loan applications.
As for you problem, you can either take the money out of your existing equity ($100K) and pay cash for the property (and then refinance) or you could put down a 20% deposit and hopefully the deal will finance on it’s own.
I would highly suggest you talk to a mortgage broker on this forum.
hi hellman,
on the contrary…we are using a mortgage broker and the gentleman handling the deal for us is apparantly very good. he gave us only one other option, to refinance the deal with another bank using a 10% deposit plus stamp duty, etc.
what i don’t understand is we have $100,000 in equity. why isn’t this enough to borrow 100% plus costs and reno costs for the new place????
PasandBec,
Though you have $100k equity, this is on total value of $500k (i.e. 80%) so if you don’t wish to pay LMI I reckon you’re stuck.
But then, you only need $15k as a deposit and costs for a $64k property – can you not use a personal loan or cc to get this? The interest might be a lot higher, but if it’s for a short period why not?
Even LMI for a 90% loan on $64k is not going to be huge. Sounds like you think it’s a deal – is it worth the extra cost of making it happen? With a 90% loan, you only need to find $8500 + LMI cost ($1000 ???) You sound keen on it.
Benny
You have enough equity in the IP to fund the deposit on the 2nd IP, and as Benny suggested LMI will apply.
Seems your IP and PPR are cross securitised, if this is the case I would restructure/rectify this when you pull out the equity,
BTW if you intend to use part of the equity from the IP for personal use i.e. non-deductible debt, then you should seriously consider a split loan, good luck, cheers.
Regards
Steven Crane
Mortgage BrokerMobile Mortgage Market
Ph: 0402 483 216
[email protected]
http://www.mobilemortgagemarket.com.auPLEASE note comments made should not be taken as specific taxation, financial, legal or investment advice.
I had told my mortgage broker that we don’t mind paying LMI….. soI am totally confused. I think I will need him to clarify the situation to me again, as I’m sure there are more options than just going with another bank.
Failing that, I may have to give you a call Steve.
pasandbec
Hi Pasandbec
No problem feel free to call me anytime, good luck with it all, cheers.Regards
Steven Crane
Mortgage BrokerMobile Mortgage Market
Ph: 0402 483 216
[email protected]
http://www.mobilemortgagemarket.com.auPLEASE note comments made should not be taken as specific taxation, financial, legal or investment advice.
sorry to be annoying, with so many questions, but is “un cross securitising” two loans hard to do??
i’m just wondering why my mortgage broker didn’t think of (and suggest it) himself?
he kept saying to me “it’s the PPOR that’s the problem, with the value coming in lower than expected”….”Bankwest said they couldn’t accept it as security”
So why can’t Bankwest do just that and not accept it as security and only use the current IP as security??
Hi Pasandbec
The problem seems to be that your PPR came in under value due to the works being carried out on the reno,
I would assume if the reno has been completed then the value should have risen and hopefully provide enough equity in the PPR and not cross securitised, i.e. separate loans for both properties,
These days most lenders products are portable, basically this means you can transfer/substitute another property/title as security over a particular mortgage.On the other hand if the reno is still a work in progress and the value of the PPR has not yet risen, then you may be required to hold off uncrossing the xcolled properties until the value of the PPR has risen,
I’m sorry for the vague response but its very hard to be more specific with out time lines and all the required details.BTW, I assume the current debt/loans on the IP and PPR are separate for accounting/tax purposes, if they are not please ensure your broker is made aware of this, I hope this helps, cheers.
Regards
Steven Crane
Mortgage BrokerMobile Mortgage Market
Ph: 0402 483 216
[email protected]
http://www.mobilemortgagemarket.com.auPLEASE note comments made should not be taken as specific taxation, financial, legal or investment advice.
OK the basics, ppor and ip total value is$500k as far as the bank is concerned, total to date borrowings is $410k. That is already $10k above the standard 80% that banks like as their comfort zone before charging great amounts of mortgage insurance.
So with a ppor loan you could get upto 100% loans and it seems you did. For any redraw to be comfortable for the bank it usuually needs you to be below the magic 80% LVR before they will rethink things.
There are 2 or three lenders that charge 10% on your money and will go over this. You do however have these level 3 lenders listed on your CRA when you next apply for loans down the track and this can be looked at disfavourably when approaching a tier one (major bank)lender.
So Each loan and lender has advantages and disadvantages you really need to consider before jumping in.
Basically if you are so keen to get the second IP, you need to strongly consider different lenders through a good, yes it is important to have a good, broker.
410/500 now doesnt shine as far as affordability or dripping with equity. Maybe let this one go and catch the next bus due shortly.
DD
Buyers Agent (Dip Financial Services(FP)
Don’t sweat the small stuff,and it’s all small stuff!!How dissapointing! [bawl]
I wonder if we will have trouble even borrowing money for our PPOR renovations then!!!!
Well, if anyone if after a property deal and are prepared to put a fair bit of elbow grease into renovating the place, then let me know, coz it appears we won’t be able to buy it. [cry]
pasandbec
p.s. I also have photos we personally took of the place.
I do not want to let this one go…..
[cigar]Can’t Bankwest just lend us the money for the 2nd IP plus extra (for renos) and we pay just a few thousand in LMI???
For example:
~new IP purchase price $64,000
~costs $5,000~extra money for renos to new IP and existing PPOR $30,000
~existing PPOR loan $225,000
~existing IP loan $185,000
equals $509,000 LOAN against $565,000 VALUE
which makes the LVR approximately 90%LMI calculated on around 1.5% (would this percentage be about right???) would be around $7,500
It sounds like alot of money to pay in LMI but we are prepared to pay it!
Besides your properties apparntly being cross-collateralised, which you still have not confirmed or denied, you might be facing serviceability issues.
If your properties are NOT cross collaterilsed, it is a simple matter of increasing the loan on your first IP to 80% and also borrowing 80% against the new property. This assumes you can service the additional debt and you don’t want to pay LMI.
Without providing all the information, you cannot be given the correct advice.
ARE THE PROPERTIES CROSS-COLLATERALISED (ie: one loan over both existing properties or they are linked as security)??????
TMA
http://www.email4money.info
Investor Links
First Home Buyer WebsiteOriginally posted by TMA:Besides your properties apparntly being cross-collateralised, which you still have not confirmed or denied, you might be facing serviceability issues.
If your properties are NOT cross collaterilsed, it is a simple matter of increasing the loan on your first IP to 80% and also borrowing 80% against the new property. This assumes you can service the additional debt and you don’t want to pay LMI.
Without providing all the information, you cannot be given the correct advice.
ARE THE PROPERTIES CROSS-COLLATERALISED (ie: one loan over both existing properties or they are linked as security)??????
TMA
http://www.email4money.info
Investor Links
First Home Buyer WebsiteThey are linked as security, two seperate loans. No problem with servicability. We don’t mind paying LMI ( I think I have mentioned that a few times, lol)
thanks for your post TMA and sorry if I have been missing vital details along the way [blush2] i am still a ‘newbie’ when it comes to property investing.
what you say actually makes sense to me!!
it seems do-able!??If we increase current IP loan to 80% that will free up $63,000. We could then make a 20% deposit on new IP and borrow the rest (80%) from the Bank – no questions asked (right?) With the remainder ($50,200) we could do the renos we want to do on the new IP and our PPOR and still have money left over.
Could this be true, could this actually work?? I am afraid to get exicted!
Hi just joined this forum (from NZ).
Have you considered a basic cosmetic reno and quickly selling the underperforming property, and start again afresh?
Sorry if I have not understoood all the subtlties of your situation but hope this helps.
Don’t get too excited yet. The scenario I outlined was dependent on the properties NOT being cross-collateralised.
Your only option, if your current lender will not let you borrow more than 80% LVR, is to seek out another lender who will let you borrow 90% or even 95%. You will definately be up for LMI but you don’t mind. I didn’t miss that.
Many of the brokers here can refinance you out of the current situation into a higher LVR across your two existing and your third property. Just make sure your structuring is correct so you don’t encounter the same problem.
PS: I hate BankWest!
TMA
http://www.email4money.info
Investor Links
First Home Buyer Website
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