Simple because as a scientist you actually were doing something for the benefit of others, not just yourself – as a property investor you actually contribute very little society.
Originally posted by McGrath:Simple because as a scientist you actually were doing something for the benefit of others, not just yourself – as a property investor you actually contribute very little society.
Or to look at it with the glass half full: you are providing people with lovely places to live in.
More stuff on the voigtstr at http://users.bigpond.net.au/voigtstr
Simple because as a scientist you actually were doing something for the benefit of others, not just yourself – as a property investor you actually contribute very little society.I strongly DISAGREE, scientific research is not about finding a cure for all the little children dieing of cancer (if it was I would have stayed in). Its about MONEY!!!!
There have been experiments skewed by big money making companies that sell cigarettes simply because they dont want scientific research showing exactly how bad they really are.
There are experiments skewed by vitamin companies simply because they want to take perfectly good food refine it in a laboratory and have people believe that eating it in tablet form out of a bottle is a good replacement than eating it in its raw natural state (I’m talking about vitamin supplement companies)
Eg Eating raw carrots cannot harm you because you will get to full before they can cause any harm.
Juicing carrots can harm you because you can injest alot more vitamin A than what it takes to get full on raw carrots.
taking vitamin A tablets has been shown to cause cancer, same with iron tablets etc etc.
Why are these results not out in the open, becuase there is alot of money to be made in selling vitamins!!!!!
I could go on and on.
Science is not a noble career, its about money!!!!
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phone 0412 437 582And about being an investor, as Voigstr said, you provide a housing solution. I also have a team of trades people and real estate agents that I employ to help with my business.
Isn’t that giving something to society?
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phone 0412 437 582I think the point is that some people have to work. It wqould be bad if we went to the supermarket and noone worked there anymore- because they didn;t want a J-O-B and had become fulltime property investors. I guess it would be a bummer too, if we went to take our kids to school and the teachers had left ther J-O-B to invest. Some people actually enjoy work- lots of people- and I guess you hope your children’s teachers like their job, so that the children enjoy learning?
I for one, am pleased that if I go to a doctor or a hospital, that there are people there to look after me, and that they’re not all too busy being full-time investors to be able to spare a minute to be an ambulance-driver.
And who would pay rents if everyone was a fulltime property investor? I think we shouldn;t be so quick to put down workers- not merely because they actually *make* society- but also because it is not good to have contempt for your bread and butter.
kay henry
hi Kay
I totally agree, we need a balanced society. It is highly unlikely that everyone is going to run out and become a property investor, just like not everyone is going to become a medical doctor or a lawyer or an actor.The point is that just because someone IS a property investor, does not mean that they chase money more than anyone else or that they do not do anything to benefit society.
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phone 0412 437 582Originally posted by pete r:Hi DrX,
I wonder why you shy away from the truth. Why allow other people to determine how you feel and what you say? That is giving them a tremendous amount of control over you and your feelings. Isn’t it really their problem? Why not let them deal with their problem rather than allowing it to become yours? I realise that it can be difficult, especially with friends and relatives, but I was always taught to retain control of the way I feel and not give others power over me.“A person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still”. No sense in trying to change people’s opinions and it is unproductive. I try to continue to be proactive and productive. Do you want to be rich or right?
Congratulations on what you have achieved and I can’t see why you should allow others to influence your dreams. They are yours and no-one elses. Good luck and best wishes.
pr
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Dear Xenia,1. I fully agree with Pete’s a/m comments.
2. For your kind considerations, please.
3. Thank you.regards,
Kenneth KOHOriginally posted by Dr.X:Not rocket science kp, all we do is buy property, value-add and re-sell. Just like all you other guys and gals out there. We use the old trick that in a hot market, if you don’t have a finance clause and offer a quick settlement, our offers get looked at more favourably (sometimes).
What do you do?[biggrin]
Cheers
Xenia
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Dear Xenia,1. To me, you can either call yourself a Property Trader or a Property Renovator or a Company Director in a Property Renovation/trading Firm.
2. I’m also a full time property investor as well as a company director.
3. With fellow forum members, I will project myself as a full-time property investor.
4. When I got queried at your Immigration, I will tell them that I am a Company Director… of my own Australian Property Development Company, of course!
5. I agree with Wayne that it is better for us to be honest and straight about own status.
6. I do not think we need to be or feel apologetic about what we are doing as a full-time property investor.
7. For your kind considerations,please.
8. Thank you.
regards,
Kenneth KOHOriginally posted by Dr.X:The whole idea of this post was not whether we should love money or not its that being an investor means that you constantly get attacked for wanting to make money.
By people WORKING for money in JOBS.
When I was working as a scientist, I used to be attacked constantly by “animal liberationsists” for using experimental animals. These people were very happy to sit in a restaurant after their little riots and eat STEAK!!!!
In the past, when people said anything about using animals, I used to ask one question, are you a vegeterian???? If the answer was no, then I used to respond with, you are a hypocrete and have no right to be lecturing me.
NOW as an investor, I say, do you work for free??? If the answer was no, then I used to respond with, you are a hypocrete and have no right to be lecturing me.
People love to put others down for something they also do themselves????
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Dear Xenia,1. It seems that you sort of “enjoy” allowing yourself to be affected with what other people says and think about what you are doing/who you are.
2. I wonder what’s your real true motivation for allowing this?… As there will always be others who think/respond differently from each one of us to a certain extent.
3. To me, “who I really am”(Self Image and self Esteem) is separate and different from what I am doing (Actions and Behaviours) presently.
4. I will normally allow myself to decide “who I truly am” as a person as God has made and wanted me to be.
5. I will NOT allow others to bother me with their criticisms and feedback unncessarily especially if their comments do not help me to become a better person consequently.
6. Internally and within myself, I know very well that for who I am and what I am, I have been uniquely created of by God Himself, to be different from the other individuals despite sharing most of the same human characteristics and features, as other human beings.
7. Thus, I am always mindful that since it is God the Creator, who has made each one of us uniquely, the way we are now, why not learn to accept ourselves as “perfect” as God has deemed us to be in in the first place when He has declared us to be in His perfect image as our Ultimate Creator.
8. As for what I am presently doing, I try to consider the feedback given buy other people and from the immediate operative environment and see how I can further improve myself and be more effective and more efficient in what I am presently doing so that I can better value to serve them.
9. For your kind update and considerations,please.
10. Thank you.
regards,
Kenneth KOHthanks Keneth for taking the time to write those posts in full detail. You sound like a very well balanced person.
I’m far from it, but working on it.
Xenia
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phone 0412 437 582Originally posted by Dr.X:Just wanted to share a constant dilema with other investors. I’m sure we constantly face the same problem. How do other people handle it?
Are you sick and tired of people preaching to you about chasing the mighty $$$$?
As soon as I tell people that I buy real estate for a living, they ALWAYS reply with “I’d rather be happy than be rich” or, “oh so all you do is chase money”, or, “how many properties do you want, isnt that greedy”
Im SICK of it, sometimes I just tell people that I’m just a stay at home mum that dosen’t have an income just to avoid the attacks!
Why is it that people can’t understand that, everyone is chasing money. No one works for free. I used to be a scientist and gave it up for real estate investing. Why was it OK for me to make money in research and everyone congratulated me after every pay rise, and now everyone looks down on me after every deal that I have made money on?
Money buys me freedom to be with my kids, if I had a normal job, my kids would be in day care and I would have to sell my time with my family in exchange for money. Isn’t that chasing the mighty dollar?
Why are poor people working in jobs seen as being good and investor/developers seen as bad. Its almost as if people are waiting for something bad to happen so that they can feel better about themselves. It’s not that difficult to see that poor people can also be greedy and bad and rich people can be good and giving. Money does not dictate your personality. Why is this so difficult for the average person to see?
To top it off, I just recieved an email from Neil Jenman recomeding a book on the good life, his quote was he “is sick of the sick persuit of money” He signed the email as “get well soon” Please! coming from someone who slanders investors for a living! Is it really that bad to want to be rich?
Comments PLEASE!!!!!
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phone 0412 437 582I must say that its good to hear that I’m not the only money grabbing,unhappy, evil landlord on the planet. Unfortunetely having people harang you for trying get somewhere is part of the deal. According to Robert J Ringer author of MILLION DOLLAR HABITS.He says that its something that you just have to accept.
Your friends are jealous because they feel they could never achieve what you have.That type of self limiting thinking keeps them squarlie in their wage slavery where their sole function is to make their boss rich.(quote from Steves first book).This ultimately is good because among their number are the people who because of their attidude are commited to lease all their lives. We need them to fill our properties.
Why don’t you start collecting friends who are achievers. Then achieving will just seem normalJohn Bond
Dr X, for what its worth we have also found that the more successful we become in our pursuits, the more varied peoples responses. 11 years ago my husband and I were living working dead end, menial jobs 50-60hrs per week just to make ends in a part of the country that traditionally has a very high cost of living. With no hope of getting ahead let alone buying our own home we made a decision to leave family and freinds behind and make a new start for ourselves. We moved across the country and both of us went back to school full time to earn degrees. To support ourselves we worked weekends, nights and early morning cleaning offices, banks etc and ran up student debts we’ll still be paying for at least another 5 years. Degrees in hand we returned to the workfore fulltime in jobs that required more from us that any of our previous labouring jobs in terms of responsibility, mentally draining etc. My partner in particular found the transition from labouring work to a professional occupation extremely stressful and it is a credit to him that he held on, worked through the challenges and now has a successful career. Eventually we bought our first house, furnished it, upgraded our car etc and even have a little money left over for a cheap annual holiday.
In the early days our friends and family were very supportive but we have found as time goes on, they are less encouraging and at times almost resentful of our success. For instance, we once had a great relationship with my sister-in-law and her husband but that changed almost overnight when we bought a better PPOR and later sold our first IP for a tidy profit. Whilst she’d never admit it, I’m convinced jealousy spoiled the easy, fun relationship we used to have. Several years on we have started our own family whilst their children have all grown up and left home. We’ve both carefully managed our careers and after plenty of hard yards earn a good income working about 60hrs a week between us so that we can enjoy plenty of family time. The downside is we have to contract to achieve this meaning no sickies, no annual leave, no real job security etc. After a few years out of investing we’re now back in the game having recently bought another IP and looking for a 2nd IP hopefully before Xmas. Meanwhile my SIL has heaps of disposable income and can’t stay away from the shops, spending as fast as they are earning. We’ve tried to talk them into getting an IP as a wealth building tool, they even went to their bank who said yep, go for it, but they just can’t bring themselves to do it and justify their stance on the basis of property prices falling, blah, blah, blah. Now we can’t discuss money at all – they just scoff and make comments like “yeah right” as if we couldn’t possibly relate to their lower income status. Neither have ever lived anywhere but their very small home town within spitting distance of parents. He’s remained in same minimal income job for over 20 years having turned down several potentially career making promotions. In other words, they have lived a life as risk free as you could possibly get. Apparently we have become too big for our boots. What they can’t see is that the have far more disposable income than we do and with plenty of equity in their home they are in a great position to build wealth. But its not just them, my family are also a bit negative and we have already decided to keep quiet about our hunt for a 2nd IP. Just easier if they don’t know.
But you know it really peeves me off. We aren’t enjoying our rather modest success through luck or inheritence. We stepped outside our comfort zones, we made a plan and stuck with it, we worked damn hard and we’ve taken risks just like most of the people on this forum have. Risk equals reward! Its just a sad fact that those factors are too easily forgotten/overlooked by those that can’t/won’t have a go themselves.
It’s funny since writing this post, we have overcome all of the problems I was complaining about.
We now run our investments as a business, have business cards, a web presence etc. We also use lables for what we do, like, we do rent to own homes, we are developers and we buy, fix up and sell houses. We dont use the evil word, investors!
People are OK with that!!!!!!
All except my mother in law, who thinks that both of us being in business together makes us too equal and dosent give her son the right to dominate the household and all the other privilages that he should have just for being born a male!!!
Oh well, you can’t please everyone
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phone 0412 437 582Fantastic story flatout….I really enjoyed that and related to it very closely with our own journey and relationships along the way.
We both started off in meaningless labouring jobs, saw that wasn’t leading anywhere fast and said goodbye to all family and friends and choofed off to the other side of the country and both picked up valuable degrees on which to build careers.
We also have had fantastic encouraging support from family members when we were ‘down but up and coming’. Over the years that support has transformed into a weird sort of quiet and snide resentment from family and friends.
We’ve found people are very happy to pat you on the head and support you when you are economically not as ‘large’ as them. When you grow (usually through damn hard work, persistence and plenty of sacrifices…time, raggy depreciating material possessions etc…) above their ‘station in life’ suddenly that pat you on the head syndrome fades away and it becomes ‘every man for himself’.
A couple of years of growth down the track, and that rivally turns again from equals to they give up and the bitterness / jealousy / attacks start and she usually goes downhill from there.
We are now to the point where family and friends ranging from our peers to people 30 years our senior are seeking our advice / comments on how we did it.
Thankfully the jealousy and bitterness have ceased, and we are all on great terms again. There is now just a quiet shaking of the heads in disbelief at our companies activities.
We offered members of the family to join our journey, all steadfastly refused years ago and all now regret not having come on board.
Anyway…people have different priorities in life…whatever turns your crank handle hey ??
Its our education system and what we are taught along with the tall poppy sydrome.
Eg If that was such a good idea, why didnt I think of it, peoples egos are way out of control
It is so nice to be back in this forum.
What you are all describing is what I have experienced so I dont need to get into anything to detailed.
Dr X – great topic, it has struck a chord with many people.
I live in small country town and desperately want to talk to people about my investing, (I find it really exciting to talk to people who are into it) and want to listen to people talk about theirs too. I feel really isolated when I comes to having people to talk to.
I am out of my tree at night, I am like a runner waiting for the starters pistol, problem is that the people I want to talk to dont work at 11pm. I dont have people who I can call and get excited with. (if that makes sense)
I agree with the comments about people with big disposable incomes, I see them in their new cars, renting a nice house, with harvey norman “no deposit” furnishings.I Drive an ex taxi (cheap to buy, cheap to run) I live in a below average house, My tenants all live in nicer houses than me!. I buy clothes for around the house and even some business shirts and ties from Vinnies, I buy specials every day at the supermarket, I dont take many holidays, I do some work on properties myself (plumbing, some carpentry, tiling, etc.. – this is where my holidays go) To the casual observer I probably look like someone who is pushed to make ends meet.Every spare cent we have goes into building wealth.
I am reaching a critical mass, the hard slog of the last few years is starting to show real benefits.I forget the author, but I recall reading about a response to “the” question that went something like this.
1: What do you do?2: I invest in property.
1: Oh, I am not interested in money like that – I dont want to be rich. I want to concentrate on important things like my family.
2: By investing in property I dont have to work in a job, that means I can spend more time with my family, the income allows me to buy better health insurance for my family, to buy a very SAFE car for my family to travel in, I can also provide better opportunities for my family in education, entertainment and personal development. The list goes on – Better shoes = healthier feet…. etc…
The investor then looks at the person and says so you dont want to spend more time with your family??
or something like that. It was profound at the time anyway.My extended family are being left behind to some extent. I have offered them the opporuntity to be involved in some of my projects (especially when I have needed more capital) but now I dont need capital, and I dont offer. It was always the wrong time for them – Funny that?
I am only just starting to employ other strategies. All of my portfolio until now was just buy rent hold (and some reno) I can see that to have explosive growth I need to get into the rent to buy market, wrap people into homes, and continue to buy below true value from motivated vendors.
To the person who said we dont make a contribution to society that is a huge mistruth. Without the private rental market, there would simply not be enough public housing to go around, we provide a service that the Govt. cannot. That is why the Govt. help us to do what we do with tax incentives, and help tenants to get into our properties.
So much for not getting into detail…..
Off topic but please let it go.
While I am on a roll I have been thinking that property investors should be elligible for “Exceptional Circumstatces Assistance” much like farmers.
Farmers provide a service the Govt. cannot
So do we
Famers are subject to the vagaries of uncontrolable circumstances (weather)
So are we (economic factors)
Farmers stand to loose everything if a few bad things happen at once.
So do we.
Am I the only person who sees the world this way?Hi Jenwren
I absolutely agree, I also see the world just like you, investing is just another profession, every job and profession is done for the sake of money.
But like you said, just like every other job out there, we are also providing a service.
I can see you point about the emergency circumstances assistance since we are subject to economic climate conditions, just wondering if such an assistance would contribute to creating more victims in the investing area? Ie people not caring to factor in economic changes because the government is there to help.
I’m not a big fan of government assistance for anything except for people who are genuinly (spelling???) disabled.
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phone 0412 437 582For sure. I was being a little (just a wee) bit sarcastic.
I dont want government assistance.Hi Dazzling,
I knew there are others out there like us so it was heartening to hear from you and also that your relationships eventually normalised. There is hope yet!
I honestly believe that a lot of the resentment from family and friends that successful people encounter along the way is not so much that these people don’t want us to be successful or even begrudge us, its just perhaps that our success is too stark a reminder of their own failures or non-achievements. Unfortunately it is a sad fact of life that most people never achieve their dreams. We’re well on the way to achieving ours and if we never fully succeed at least I’ll die knowing I gave it my best shot – and there’s something very empowering about that. I suspect Dazzling that you and many others on this forum have already discovered that. So its not about the money – that’s just a means to an end.
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